Open hill sika Scotland

[Perthshirewazzock]

Hi all.

I'm an amateur photographer and hopefully soon to be stalker soon.

My question just now is, how many of you see sika right out in the open hill in Scotland? I've personal never seen this myself. I've photographed them near Peebles but they were only about just after dawn break and very flighty. Was wondering if maybe in the Highlands they are more often seen on the open hill?

 

[Mungo]

It seems to depend on how intensely they’re shot. Two years ago, I was invited out stalking on ground very near Peebles where they hadn’t been shot at much, and there were groups of 10-15 out on the open hill. They were much more relaxed than you usually expect for sika - though even then, getting much closer than 350m took careful stalking.

There is also a herd that appear regularly on the hill behind Broughton, on the left as you drive South towards Moffat, and they don’t seem much fussed if you stop the car to watch them. Though that’s a sheep field backing into forest, not open hill.

However, I don’t think they like open hill - they’re really a woodland specialist. And they’re usually so intensely stalked that they’re extremely jumpy and mainly dawn/dusk - as you’ve seen.

 

[Dermot Long]

Hi there I stalk in Kerry in southern Ireland and yes sika will head out onto the open hill especially when the weather is good and I doubt if Scotland is any different . They like the sun on their backs but if there is rain especially cold wintery rain they will head for lower ground. On some hills especially where there is no forestry they can be seen out on the open hill in the middle of the day but always on the sheltery side of the hill and always in the sun

 

[Bowland blades]

Sika if pressed by heavy stalking pressure or regular daytime disturbance by walkers etc will turn nocturnal and seek the thickest of cover during daylight hours . Sika just seem to take to this type of behaviour faster than any other deer species .
Finding the undisturbed areas and not pressurising the sika present is key .

 

[Mungo]

Sika if pressed by heavy stalking pressure or regular daytime disturbance by walkers etc will turn nocturnal and seek the thickest of cover during daylight hours . Sika just seem to take to this type of behaviour faster than any other deer species .

I was discussing this with a friend recently and he suggested that maybe evolving with tigers as your primary predator means you need to learn fast!

 

[Bowland blades]

I was discussing this with a friend recently and he suggested that maybe evolving with tigers as your primary predator means you need to learn fast!

Its a theory perhaps. I am just speaking about hands on Stalking and pretty much daily study of this species. To be fair Sika are not so bothered if they see no real pressure . On rough nights i have had them sheltering at the side of my dog kennels.
My own theory is Sika are the least available of all the UK deer to stalkers . This means most of the Sika ground takes more shooting pressure !
Think of Roe on a private Estate with no commercial stalking and light pressure and contrast that to a "pay to play" syndicate with the head man trying to turn a profit ! The deer will look the same but behave very differently

 

[rem284]

Yep, they don't like pressure. They also disperse into smaller groups as the pressure increases.

 

[Utectok]

Wicklow has sika open hill stalking and plenty on the open hill at Glencassely near Lairg. Shot sika in both locations after hill stalks. And in some other place near Lairg.

 

[sikamalc]

I have stalked Sika in the northern highlands for well over 36 years. When I first started in the area of Sutherland there were areas where Sika had not colonised. Slowly but surely over the years this has changed, and now they are common across all the areas north of Inverness, right down through Loch Ness and beyond.

Sika are by there very nature elusive, and in Scotland the FC have tried and tried to eradicate them, without success as far as I can see. Hence them being mostly edgy and older beasts not moving until the light is almost gone. Even in the rut, they rarely let their guard down. Plus they can carry a shot too.
I have seen stags on the open hill, especially when the rut is on, and hinds too. However good cover is nearly always near by. The spread of commercial forestry in the early 1980's and 1990's also helped the spread of the species in my opinion. The thick cover, adjacent to open hill, large fire breaks with some grazing, make it ideal habitat for Sika.
When sika start to move out and colonise new areas, it is nearly always young stags turning up first. They will hybridise with a young Red hind too, if there are not enough Sika hinds in the area. I am also of the opinion that where Sika move in, Roe eventually dwindle in numbers, to the point of vanishing all together. Sika stags can be very aggressive, and it is the only species of deer that I have had charge me when wounded on two occassions, whilst tracking them in commercial forestry with my BMH.

I have also stalked them in the West country for around 6 years on some 750 acres I had through my fathers cousin, now passed on. Here it was not unusual to see groups of 20 to 40 animals, sometimes. However they appeared to me to be much easier to stalk, and far more tolerant of people. Weights were higher, and I well remember taking one stag out of a group of about 12 animals, that took 2 bullets from my 25.06, perfectly placed before it jumped a small fence and died. It took 3 of us to drag it out of the thick cover, one of whom is a member on here. Larder weight, with gralloch, pluck, legs and head off, was 150lbs. The heaviest Sika I have ever shot.
They are a challenge to stalk and kill at times, but the venison is top notch, and my favorite venison.

 

[Camdig]

I would say the best chance to see Sika on the open hill would be to walk over the hills from Innerleithen over to Moffat highly likely or over from Peebles to Moffat I would say those areas are your best chance.
I did a bit of management on hill ground south west of Peebles and it was common to see small herds lying in bracken beds and out in the heather.
Been on hound days out the back of Biggar and Sika have come off the hill to plantations.
If you want to get really close for picture purposes get a quad and sheep snacker on a winters day they will appear out of no where.

 

[Bowland blades]

I have stalked Sika in the northern highlands for well over 36 years. When I first started in the area of Sutherland there were areas where Sika had not colonised. Slowly but surely over the years this has changed, and now they are common across all the areas north of Inverness, right down through Loch Ness and beyond.

Sika are by there very nature elusive, and in Scotland the FC have tried and tried to eradicate them, without success as far as I can see. Hence them being mostly edgy and older beasts not moving until the light is almost gone. Even in the rut, they rarely let their guard down. Plus they can carry a shot too.
I have seen stags on the open hill, especially when the rut is on, and hinds too. However good cover is nearly always near by. The spread of commercial forestry in the early 1980's and 1990's also helped the spread of the species in my opinion. The thick cover, adjacent to open hill, large fire breaks with some grazing, make it ideal habitat for Sika.
When sika start to move out and colonise new areas, it is nearly always young stags turning up first. They will hybridise with a young Red hind too, if there are not enough Sika hinds in the area. I am also of the opinion that where Sika move in, Roe eventually dwindle in numbers, to the point of vanishing all together. Sika stags can be very aggressive, and it is the only species of deer that I have had charge me when wounded on two occassions, whilst tracking them in commercial forestry with my BMH.

I have also stalked them in the West country for around 6 years on some 750 acres I had through my fathers cousin, now passed on. Here it was not unusual to see groups of 20 to 40 animals, sometimes. However they appeared to me to be much easier to stalk, and far more tolerant of people. Weights were higher, and I well remember taking one stag out of a group of about 12 animals, that took 2 bullets from my 25.06, perfectly placed before it jumped a small fence and died. It took 3 of us to drag it out of the thick cover, one of whom is a member on here. Larder weight, with gralloch, pluck, legs and head off, was 150lbs. The heaviest Sika I have ever shot.
They are a challenge to stalk and kill at times, but the venison is top notch, and my favorite venison.

Yeah they have been known to charge ! I know one very experienced FC ranger who had one rush at him when he was simply sat waiting, his dog actually nailed it in defence . That sort of thing though is so incredibly rare though

 

[User00040]

I was discussing this with a friend recently and he suggested that maybe evolving with tigers as your primary predator means you need to learn fast!

Sambar's home range has more tigers vs. Sika

Yes there are a few tigers left in Manchuria vs. what there was. Japan might have had some form of tiger long ago, but looking at the Sika in Japan, they are huge yet extremely tame.

Some Japanese still snare and spear them but the American expat community is making headway with shotgun hunting there.

The rifle market there is so restricted and small (despite quality, important bits being made there) that getting ammo is very difficult.

 

[Ratel]

Larder weight, with gralloch, pluck, legs and head off, was 150lbs. The heaviest Sika I have ever shot.
They are a challenge to stalk and kill at times, but the venison is top notch, and my favorite venison.

Sod it Malc you beat me, my biggest larder weight 148 lbs when hung same as yours, 144 lbs out to the dealer three days later.
I agree the best venison of all, will try for some at the first signs of the rut on my old border hills ground.

 

[tiny tim]

I've seen plenty of sika out on the hillsides in Ireland, but never seen many in Scotland. I wonder as their numbers increase they'll become more visible....

 

[sikamalc]

Yeah they have been known to charge ! I know one very experienced FC ranger who had one rush at him when he was simply sat waiting, his dog actually nailed it in defence . That sort of thing though is so incredibly rare though

Yes it is a rare event. Its happened twice in 36 years. The first time was pretty close, I shot it coming straight at me in 10 to 15 year old plantation on a hill side at about 15yds with a 357 revolver. More by luck than judgement I managed to drop the stag.
That got my attention more than the charging elephant I shot in Zimbabwe, which had been caught in a poachers snare. That I shot with my 375hh at 20yds.
However when ever I am stalking sika in the Highlands I am always prepared when I am guiding clients, especially where thick commercial forestry is involved. Which is on the areas we have access to now.

They can be one tough deer.

 

[hw101]

Yes it is a rare event. Its happened twice in 36 years. The first time was pretty close, I shot it coming straight at me in 10 to 15 year old plantation on a hill side at about 15yds with a 357 revolver. More by luck than judgement I managed to drop the stag.
That got my attention more than the charging elephant I shot in Zimbabwe, which had been caught in a poachers snare. That I shot with my 375hh at 20yds.
However when ever I am stalking sika in the Highlands I am always prepared when I am guiding clients, especially where thick commercial forestry is involved. Which is on the areas we have access to now.

They can be one tough deer.

The fact is sika suffer similar ballistic to other deer when shot. But it is well reported that sika are the toughest deer to bring down.
This makes me wonder about their evolution and genetics. Has anyone ever analysed their haemoglobin structure / concentration versus European deer? Or muscle myoglobin content?

 

[NullMac]

I have Sika stalking down near Moffat.

Do they appear on the hill? Yes, mainly hind groups. Never seen a mature stag out on the hill, don't see many big boys except at rut time.

They get shot and they are very aware but out on the hill they seem happy enough even when they know I am about as long as it is 500+ yards. It is at the far end of the ground and is a hell of a drag from there so maybe it's their safe place. The rest of the time they are super shy.

I still find them completely unpredictable deer though even after years of stalking them. Never seen them wandering about the Highland moors like Red, or indeed Roe. I have never seen them lying about out of cover. Hard to imagine to be honest.

 

[Mungo]

This makes me wonder about their evolution and genetics. Has anyone ever analysed their haemoglobin structure / concentration versus European deer? Or muscle myoglobin content?

Their overall genetics are well understood, as is their relationship to the other Cervus deer. They’re essentially a very close sister species to red deer - as shown by the ease with which they interbreed.

But quite why they’re harder to kill than reds (or fallow) is a mystery.

Part of the problem is that it’s hard to work out for sure whether they really are harder to kill, or whether it just seems that way. Almost all sika stalking happens in dense forestry, usually in poor light conditions. And they are extremely flighty. That means that shots are often rushed, with bad visibility, at an alert animal, where a short dead run takes them into terrain that’s extremely hard to track in (clearfell, dense restock, mature forestry on steep wet slopes, as it’s getting dark). So finding them becomes an ordeal, and it sticks in your memory. A sika stag that runs 30m into restock at last light might as well be on the moon, while a red hind that runs 200m over open moor never goes out of view and you walk straight to it.

 

[Mungo]

I have Sika stalking down near Moffat.

Do they appear on the hill? Yes, mainly hind groups. Never seen a mature stag out on the hill, don't see many big boys except at rut time.

They get shot and they are very aware but out on the hill they seem happy enough even when they know I am about as long as it is 500+ yards. It is at the far end of the ground and is a hell of a drag from there so maybe it's their safe place. The rest of the time they are super shy.

I still find them completely unpredictable deer though even after years of stalking them. Never seen them wandering about the Highland moors like Red, or indeed Roe. I have never seen them lying about out of cover. Hard to imagine to be honest.

They are absolute wizards at vanishing in any more than about 10 inches of heather. And bedding right down so you can’t even see them with thermal.

Until you blunder right into them…

 

[NullMac]

But it is well reported that sika are the toughest deer to bring down.

I am certainly not going to disagree with @sikamalc 's experience. I am a newb in comparison. For me though , the general perception of them being armoured plate and needing a 300 WM to bring them down I think is over done.

My experience is that they fall over just like all the other deer. I have tended to shoot them with 308 and latterly 65CM. No issues when I put the bullet where it should go. They all run around if you put it in the wrong place However I have seen, but not shot, a couple of very big stags where I probably would have preferred something bigger, plus a big lad to do the dragging

Watching certain expert stalkers, in their own mind, shooting a wee hind at 100 yards with a 300WM proves nothing.