Open Letter to BASC re Licensing Survey

[Greymaster]

I have just sent the following email to BASC and the S&C Magazine:

Dear Sirs,

Letter to BASC and to BASC Shooting and Conservation Magazine

In the March 2017 edition of the BASC’s Shooting & Conservation magazine there was published a table of results from a national (England & Wales) FOI based survey conducted by the BASC. It accompanied an article describing the shooter’s experience as being a postcode lottery.

On-line the article can be found here:

https://basc.org.uk/blog/press-rele...dy-shows-firearms-licensing-postcode-lottery/

I eagerly awaited my March 2018 edition of S&C to be able to follow up that survey revealing 2017 performances. I was extremely disappointed to find no mention of a similar survey for 2017 in the March 2018 magazine.

Your (or as a members should I say, our) employee, David, who posts regularly the BASC stance on matters concerning shooting on the TheStalkingDirectory forum, stated in March 2017 on-line the following:

“BASC members will have received their latest mag by now and this report is carries in there in more detail, specifically what we are doing with the data. We are using this data to work with ACC David Orford (national lead on firearms) and Police Crime Commissioners to bring about improvements to licencing”

This was 06/03/2017

Here:

https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co...nd-and-Wales?p=1225699&viewfull=1#post1225699

So, could you please explain where the comparative table is for a 2017 survey. We as shooters, and our representative organisations often demand “evidenced based” when new initiatives from the authorities or other lobby groups seek to malign or restrict our legal sport.

Where is the evidence that the work BASC are doing with ACC Orford (of the NPCC), and PCCs across England & Wales is producing the improvements David speaks of?

Can BASC please confirm whether they conducted a similar survey for 2017 in order to quantify, evidentially, the improvements David speaks of. If there was no survey, please explain why, and please explain how the BASC intends to measure the effects of its work with the NPCC lead, and PCCs across the country.

I have asked for a written reply and for the letter to be published in S&C.

 

[Whitebeard]

Did they say they were going to carry out a Survey in 2017?

Ian

 

[Greymaster]

They said in the original article that they were compiling a national database. They also stated they wanted the Home Office to publish such data quarterly.

I hope we shall soon discover how the BASC intend to measure the improvements they are working with NPCC and PCCs to deliver.

 

[Greymaster]

I have today made an FOI request to Hampshire Police for the 2017 information.

 

[kes]

I have today made an FOI request to Hampshire Police for the 2017 information.

I agree wholeheartedly with your concerns. You might also have asked how is the work on GP's charging fees going ? Any news on the 10 year licence ? Has the body (NPCC I think), decided on standards for its service delivery as BASC suggested when it accepted the (lower) fee increase without a ten year licence. How much improvement in service is shown, by force, for pursuit of e-initiatives for licensing? When is the next licence fee increase likely, given the hints made at the time about 'subsidising' the shooting community and the apparent benefits e-initiatives were quoted as being able to deliver (to keep costs down)?
I dont know why this should concern me - its only £7? annually and its about insurance isn't it ?

 

[CharlieT]

Of course Kes, you could always "get a feel" of how these things are progressing by reading the FELWG meetings minutes which are published online here............ FELWG (Firearms Explosives Licensing Working Group) Minutes The Shooting SHED Journal

It will give you an insight into the sort of brick wall BASC are banging their head against.

 

[kes]

Of course Kes, you could always "get a feel" of how these things are progressing by reading the FELWG meetings minutes which are published online here............ FELWG (Firearms Explosives Licensing Working Group) Minutes The Shooting SHED Journal

It will give you an insight into the sort of brick wall BASC are banging their head against.

Charlie, I have attended a lot of meetings with the police at ACC level. For a start the minutes should have asked if anyone had any problems with sections of the meeting - so not full police protocal. The rest is meaningless as it always was and will be an anodyne note - I wasnt there so couldnt comment on the original but give the police their due - if you have a problem with anything they will discuss it and record it. I dont see any comments from shooting organisations, despite BASC saying they attend these meetings - in fact no shooting orgs present at the meeting in August 2017. Section 5 is iteresting and does confirm the police will coe back for fee increases for the coming year 2018 - yet no comment from the voice of shooting ? This paints a poor picture both of representation and influence - £70 for what ????

 

[Greymaster]

Charlie, I have attended a lot of meetings with the police at ACC level. For a start the minutes should have asked if anyone had any problems with sections of the meeting - so not full police protocal. The rest is meaningless as it always was and will be an anodyne note - I wasnt there so couldnt comment on the original but give the police their due - if you have a problem with anything they will discuss it and record it. I dont see any comments from shooting organisations, despite BASC saying they attend these meetings - in fact no shooting orgs present at the meeting in August 2017. Section 5 is iteresting and does confirm the police will coe back for fee increases for the coming year 2018 - yet no comment from the voice of shooting ? This paints a poor picture both of representation and influence - £70 for what ????

David of BASC has often said that the BASC are fully engaged at the top levels. But absent they seem to be.

 

[Greymaster]

I have had a reply to my letter to BASC:

Dear Member,

We are running a follow-up survey on firearms licensing performance during 2017 and have already requested the data for every police force in England and Wales. We plan to run the survey annually so that members are kept up-to-date with their force’s performance. As soon as the data is supplied and collated we will publish a revised performance chart both online and in Shooting and Conservation magazine.

I hope that helps reassure you and addresses your query.

Many thanks for raising these well-considered concerns and for your longstanding support of BASC.

Best wishes,
Conor

Dr Conor O’Gorman
Policy Development Manager

British Association for Shooting and Conservation
Marford Mill
Rossett
Wrexham
LL12 0HL

Telephone: 01244 573035
Membership Hotline: 01244 573030

 

[Greymaster]

Well done BASC for recognising that evidence based argument is the soundest way to make progress here. I appreciate the timely reply and the content therein.

 

[Greymaster]

Did they say they were going to carry out a Survey in 2017?

Ian

Update: Yes. They are doing the survey year on year.

Dear Member,

We are running a follow-up survey on firearms licensing performance during 2017 and have already requested the data for every police force in England and Wales. We plan to run the survey annually so that members are kept up-to-date with their force’s performance. As soon as the data is supplied and collated we will publish a revised performance chart both online and in Shooting and Conservation magazine.

I hope that helps reassure you and addresses your query.

Many thanks for raising these well-considered concerns and for your longstanding support of BASC.

Best wishes,
Conor

Dr Conor O’Gorman
Policy Development Manager

British Association for Shooting and Conservation
Marford Mill
Rossett
Wrexham
LL12 0HL

Telephone: 01244 573035
Membership Hotline: 01244 573030