Optics; side-by-side comparison or buy by reputation ?

[ronscomon]

I am looking for a new pair of binos and have been for about a year, but have been equally bamboozled by the marketing and lack of consistent benchmarks. I don't want to spend more of my hard earned than I need, but if I must spend it then so be it. But I don't seem to be able to find out if I need to! A decent low light comparison between a range of models is hard to get but would be such a help.
​
If one is done, I bet it would throw up one or two anomalies which the top-enders would be discomfited by, which is what I'm after - perhaps most of us are - a nearly top end performance for a nowhere near top end price.

 

[caorach]

​If one is done, I bet it would throw up one or two anomalies which the top-enders would be discomfited by, which is what I'm after - perhaps most of us are - a nearly top end performance for a nowhere near top end price.

I think you are right and I think this is the very reason why the magazines etc. don't have any reviews where they actually measure performance as opposed to just repeating the waffle from the marketing press release. I bet if you acquired some binos and took them out and did an objective test on them it wouldn't be long before you were finding it very difficult to source any more binos to test, and I'd bet the only place you'd get published would be on your own web site and even then the legal threats might discourage you.

I've always thought that the Minox HGs are at an ideal place on the price/performance graph. I use a pair myself and I have compared them to Swaro at last light and to our shock the Minox could pick out the antlers on the wee stag after the Swaro gave up. In saying that you'll never go wrong with binos from the top tier manufacturers and if you can buy well second hand then you'll probably be able to sell them for what you paid which is as close to a free lunch as you'll get in this world.

 

[mak]

I think you are right and I think this is the very reason why the magazines etc. don't have any reviews where they actually measure performance as opposed to just repeating the waffle from the marketing press release. I bet if you acquired some binos and took them out and did an objective test on them it wouldn't be long before you were finding it very difficult to source any more binos to test, and I'd bet the only place you'd get published would be on your own web site and even then the legal threats might discourage you.

I've always thought that the Minox HGs are at an ideal place on the price/performance graph. I use a pair myself and I have compared them to Swaro at last light and to our shock the Minox could pick out the antlers on the wee stag after the Swaro gave up. In saying that you'll never go wrong with binos from the top tier manufacturers and if you can buy well second hand then you'll probably be able to sell them for what you paid which is as close to a free lunch as you'll get in this world.

The problem for the magazines is access to calibrated machines which measure transmission, stray light , correct spectral plane, etc. Most magazine tests are subjective, but done in good faith, with some knowledge, but if the writer has a preference then a slight bias may come through in the writing It even happens on forums!
In a Fieldsports.tv programme at an optics factory 2 units were tested, but the competitor product was not named only the transmission result.

 

[User00035]

​But that is the point, that 10 minutes is what you are paying for. It is at that time when the fallow steps out from the wood and the cheap scope will not see it and the quality one will.

It isn't just about extending shooting time. I took a stalker out once, I had Steiners he had Swaro ELs, and found him a buck in reasonable light but in the pouring rain. There were three bucks on this bit of ground but only one we wanted to shoot. This animal was lying down under a tree. I could see it was a buck but I just couldn't decide if it was the right one in the blurry rain. I borrowed the clients bins and it was immediately obvious which individual it was.
I have found I can manage perfectly well with Meopta and Duralyt level of scope quality for stalking, but with bins, which is how you identify an animal in the first place, often from much further away than the eventual shot, you can never have too much quality.
I'm saving up for my ELs now. The Steiners will be a dashboard pair.

 

[Heym SR20]

As per thread title I am curious whether folks do any direct side-by-side comparison when considering optics for their rifle(s) or whether you mainly buy a 'known quantity' on the basis of reputation.

There are the obvious more desirable names in sporting optics but there are also a lot of alternatives that don't cost various degrees of serious investment that offer great clarity and low light performance and excellent warranty cover.

So who goes direct to the top shelf and who spends time comparing products under field conditions (which is often very challenging to organise) ?

Theres two things to consider with optics:

1) build quality and durability, and rifle scopes ability to hold zero despite knocks vibration etc. it here that reputation counts, as well as personal view on build quality. I looked today through a pair of cheaper bins (£200) not a long wrong with the image, but thy felt cheap and nasty.

2) ergonomics for you and your eyes. This is a very personal thing as all our faces and eyes are different. What is good for some is not good for others. Personally I don't find Swarovski bins nearly as comfortable to use as my old Zeiss BGATs.

 

[Loki]

Hiya All

AllBinos.com - binocular review, binoculars reviews, binoculars specification - allbinos.com

Link thingy does reviews on binos and seems to compare all the technical aspects on a level field except for marking points against each criteria which can be subjective.

Shame they dont do a scope equivalent...........

L

 

[Barkingsnake]

....Shooting Times did a comparison of 3 top end scopes but this was based solely on the opinion of the reviewer and the write ups in Sporting Rifle read like a promotional brochure from the manufacturers.

Oh do I agree! SR ain't getting my renewed subscription again.

 

[Barkingsnake]

The problem for the magazines is access to calibrated machines which measure transmission, stray light , correct spectral plane, etc. Most magazine tests are subjective.

FFS it wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to actually use a test target for all test though?

Like this?
http://www.edmundoptics.com/testing-targets/test-targets/resolution-test-targets/1951-usaf-contrast-resolution-target/1331

 

[caorach]

FFS it wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to actually use a test target for all test though?

Or even easier a bit of newspaper with a headline printed on it and 10 testers each recording the time at which they can no longer read the headline as the light fails. That way you get a range of eyes and actual real world performance. Once you start using a machine then what you get are scopes that are optimised to "fool" some machine but might not perform well in the field. You could even build a cardboard box around each scope so no one knows what they are looking through.

I suspect some of the big names would be really very unhappy about such a test.

 

[The Singing Stalker]

We are back to, can we find a place 100 meters long that we can control the light. Ie, make it dark and control the amount of light we let on to a calibrated board.

 

[PointBlank]

We are back to, can we find a place 100 meters long that we can control the light. Ie, make it dark and control the amount of light we let on to a calibrated board.

http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/range%20facilities.html

​http://www.caltonmoorrange.com/

 

[John Gryphon]

I have wanted to upgrade both my scope and binos for some time but have been put off by the lack of any proper science based review.


atb Tim

I have previously posted scientific reviews on SD...no one seems to be interested...they seem to like the " i held them side by side in the gun shop one midday" test.

 

[Barkingsnake]

Or even easier a bit of newspaper with a headline printed on it .

The purpose of a test target is precisely what it states: an industry standard test and not just a piece of random newspaper.
WRT lighting, get a lightmeter. They come with a camera these days and it's not beyond the brains of an Archbishop to calibrate it.