Peregrine VLR4 non lead terminal performance field update

[samdk]

If I'm gonna cock a shot up you can guarantee it will be a fox or a deer sub 100 yards!
I don't get buck fever, shake a little when I get a fox in the sights though

I am exactly the same, nothing gets my heart racing like a fox steaming in to a call!

Well… at least not involving a rifle!

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

More field testing photos

197m shot on Sika spiker
136gr peregrine VLR4
2850 from a 20” Tikka

Textbook heart shot

Dropped to the shot

Huge blood release on ground
Heart hit dead centre
Entry Hole through heart big enough for three fingers
Exit through heart more of an “unzipping” than an exit.

Chest cavity neat and tidy
No dramatic shotgun effect with splinters everywhere.
You don’t need frangibility to make non lead work.
You dont need to accept carcase loss in order to get terminal performance.

Shot one at 250 last week
Didn’t think to take photos but it was more lung than heart
Ran 15m
Blood trail Stevie Wonder could have followed

 

[tarponhead]

This is compelling enough for me as an occasional stalker interested in ethical shots that give me maximum meat in the freezer. Much appreciated Ed, especially your detailed explanations that I can understand and learn from. My question is, to get my best ethical shot, I need as accurate a round as I can find. So I need to shoot what my rifle likes the best. How fussy are rifles about copper compared with lead or does it make no difference? I’m thinking about reloading, but would prefer factory, but not sure how many makes and weights to buy to try, given the cost. I have a 6.5x55 that loves really cheap ammo, so I’ve been spoiled but I’m happy to pay top dollar for a round that goes where I intend it to, every time, to 1 MOA. My quarry is muntjac, roe and fallow. I’ll get to boar eventually but hopefully with a .308, if my variation is granted.

 

[Magnificent 7]

Oh how naive….
High BC bullets are made to sell more bullets to people who want high BC bullets but will never utilise the “long range” potential

Bit like tyres rated to 150mph…

What kind of a sissy doesn’t use there tyres to there full capability bit like having a dog and barking yourself

 

[Danny Fireblade]

More field testing photos

197m shot on Sika spiker
136gr peregrine VLR4
2850 from a 20” Tikka

Textbook heart shot

Dropped to the shot

Huge blood release on ground
Heart hit dead centre
Entry Hole through heart big enough for three fingers
Exit through heart more of an “unzipping” than an exit.

Chest cavity neat and tidy
No dramatic shotgun effect with splinters everywhere.
You don’t need frangibility to make non lead work.
You dont need to accept carcase loss in order to get terminal performance.

Shot one at 250 last week
Didn’t think to take photos but it was more lung than heart
Ran 15m
Blood trail Stevie Wonder could have followed

It all looks excellent Ed but I’ve messaged you in here and on your website asking for a little bit of guidance with starting loads but not heard anything back?

I’m using .308, 20” barrel, 1:11 twist. I have N140 and N530. Could you give starting loads for 136gr and 167gr please, I’m hoping to use out to 300m on fallow. Thanks.

 

[zambezi]

a little bit of guidance with starting loads

The maker of Peregrine bullets has a section of his website dedicated to reload data, link and excerpt below. None of the data is an exact match for your parameters, but perhaps it might suggest a starting point? [I highlighted the loads using N530]

http://peregrinebullets.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Peregrine-Comprehensive-Reload-Data-Draft-Rev12.pdf

 

[Danny Fireblade]

Many thanks Zambezi, appreciated

 

[Heym SR20]

This is compelling enough for me as an occasional stalker interested in ethical shots that give me maximum meat in the freezer. Much appreciated Ed, especially your detailed explanations that I can understand and learn from. My question is, to get my best ethical shot, I need as accurate a round as I can find. So I need to shoot what my rifle likes the best. How fussy are rifles about copper compared with lead or does it make no difference? I’m thinking about reloading, but would prefer factory, but not sure how many makes and weights to buy to try, given the cost. I have a 6.5x55 that loves really cheap ammo, so I’ve been spoiled but I’m happy to pay top dollar for a round that goes where I intend it to, every time, to 1 MOA. My quarry is muntjac, roe and fallow. I’ll get to boar eventually but hopefully with a .308, if my variation is granted.

In my experience of my own 4 rifles and conversations with others who have developed loads, rifles treat monolithic copper bullets just as they do any other brand or type of bullets. Some rifles like some bullets and loads better than others.

I would suggest the longer high BC boat tails are a bit fussier than the dumpier flat based less pointy lower BC bullets.

You also need to think bullet length rather than bullet weight, especially as the higher weight bullets may be long enough to be on edge of stability.

So for example my 243 Heym which has a slow 1 in 10 and a bit inch twist rate, it shoots the 100gn VRG3 very well and groups tightly, but it struggles with the tipless 100gn Fox Bullet, but the later works well in Tikka and Sako 243s with 1 in 10” twist.

And in terms of ethics, my experience is that, especially with the smaller and lighter calibres, you actually have quite a bit more room for error. Given that the monolithic bullet holds together it will punch through muscle and shoulder blade etc without blowing up, going on to cause major damage to heart / lungs and then punch through the offside shoulder.

And in doing so you will loose about 1 burgers worth or meat.

By comparison I had several problems with 100gn RWS soft points on Red hinds where bullet has impacted shoulder, completely blown up and then failed to penetrate. Deer knocked down, then got up again as I approached and need a follow up shot. Shoulder completely lost and further damage from follow up as well.

 

[HonestJohn]

It’s all irrelevant if we are forced into a non-lead world, then it’s just a matter of which non-lead bullet works best for each rifle, application, distance, shot placement etc. Same really goes for lead based bullets.

 

[Dave_45]

A game dealer in Inveraray, that was anti copper till the bitter end has succumbed and admitted it won't be long till lead isn't welcome at his door

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

This is compelling enough for me as an occasional stalker interested in ethical shots that give me maximum meat in the freezer. Much appreciated Ed, especially your detailed explanations that I can understand and learn from. My question is, to get my best ethical shot, I need as accurate a round as I can find. So I need to shoot what my rifle likes the best. How fussy are rifles about copper compared with lead or does it make no difference? I’m thinking about reloading, but would prefer factory, but not sure how many makes and weights to buy to try, given the cost. I have a 6.5x55 that loves really cheap ammo, so I’ve been spoiled but I’m happy to pay top dollar for a round that goes where I intend it to, every time, to 1 MOA. My quarry is muntjac, roe and fallow. I’ll get to boar eventually but hopefully with a .308, if my variation is granted.

On the whole it makes no difference
We do get rifles that don’t like some brands over others but you get that with lead.

Whilst we all strive to shoot ragged holes when push comes to shove in field conditions the vast majority of shooters will struggle to stay much below 2MOA

Think about it
That is a clay pigeon minus the outside edge.
At 200m
The DMQ consider you a Trained Hunter if you can shoot worse than that at 100m….

That level of accuracy (clay pigeon at 200m) is more than enough when placed appropriately on the body of the target.

There are a lot of factory brands of non lead available for 6.5x55
Drop me a line and am sure we can help

 

[scrumbag]

Sadly N530 is set to be discontinued

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

It all looks excellent Ed but I’ve messaged you in here and on your website asking for a little bit of guidance with starting loads but not heard anything back?

I’m using .308, 20” barrel, 1:11 twist. I have N140 and N530. Could you give starting loads for 136gr and 167gr please, I’m hoping to use out to 300m on fallow. Thanks.

Danny
Apologies
We are inundated with requests for load data
I can only advise so many people in the day

In general my advice for non lead is use a slightly faster powder
Case volume decreases with the longer bullets
Particularly with Peregrine where the bullet design is low friction, low engagement

Starting loads are as for any other bullet of the weight you plan to use
Max loads are dependent on the components and rifle

My load uses 44gr n133 at 61.2mm OAL for the 136gr Peregrine (GGG CCI200)
You’ll have to knock a couple of grains off for the N530

I suspect 530 will be too fast for 167s but N140 should work fine
As below Peregrine have a lot more oroven data with a wider range of powders than I do
We can run anything off Quickload to give a theoretical max load

But….you always need to work up for YOUR rifle and components (not directed solely at you, but in the past people have complained that data we provided was too hot for their rifle.
Mainly because they don’t follow the fundamentals of working up!)

Hope that helps

 

[Danny Fireblade]

Thanks Ed, I appreciate the advice and all loads will be worked up from a safe starting point.

 

[Eddie P]

Sadly N530 is set to be discontinued

FFS, why do manufacturers do this!!!

 

[HonestJohn]

FFS, why do manufacturers do this!!!

supply and demand curves come to mind, failed economics in school so may be off on this one LOL

 

[scrumbag]

supply and demand curves come to mind, failed economics in school so may be off on this one LOL

Yep, they are discontinuing N105 and N32C aka Tin Star as well.

 

[Eddie P]

Yep, they are discontinuing N105 and N32C aka Tin Star as well.

Where have you seen that?

 

[scrumbag]

From a Nammo Rep: