Perfect Roe Caliber
- Thread starter User00044
- Start date
Sorry PKL, I have to humbly disagree with your experience of the 6.5.
"The weight is in the bullets length and not in it's width". Your preference is with two calibres (243 and 257) that are smaller in diameter than the 6.5 and one (7mm) thats greater, so you can't be objecting to it's frontal area. If you like the 7x57 I guess you are using bullets in the 140-160 grain range, which are very similar in sectional density to a 130grain 6.5 which contradicts your theory. The logic of the argument is flawed. In fact sectional density is usually seen as a positive - what evidence do you have to prove most of the great hunting gurus of the last century wrong?
Long "dead runs" tend to be more to do with velocity and bullet construction than it's sectional density. Hit a Roe in the chest with a TV of 2500 fps it's likely to run a little way. Hit it at 3000 fps and more often than not they drop due to the hydraulic shock. A 243 running a 90 grain bullet usually runs greater than the 3000 fps and achieves more bang flops, although admittedly with more carcass damage unless your using a fairly tough bullet. 6.5x55 running a 140 grain results in more runners as TV is much slower. You can get around this by using a more fragmenting bullet but the bang flop shot reaction with a chest shot is less frequent. Alternatively drop bullet weight and get it moving faster.
I have shot a lot of Roe with 6mm 100g at 3100 fps, 6.5mm 130g at 2900 fps and 7mm 150g at 2750fps. My favoured chambering of the three for Roe is the 6.5 as the balance of shot reaction and carcass damage is best. The velocity it's running at combined with the bonded bullet is responsible but it's still more bullet than is needed to despatch a Roe. To get Roe perfection I would be running an 80 grain bullet in the 6mm and reducing the charge weight to achieve 2900 fps at the muzzle. A 223 would do the same job with a 60 grain bullet and is seen ideal in Scotland but unfortunately illegal south of the border.
So you see, it's not about the calibre or the chambering, they are pretty irrelevant once the bullet has left the barrel, it's much more to do with bullet weight, construction and terminal velocity at the ranges you normally shoot over. If you didn't have success with the 6.5 perhaps you might think about what you were doing wrong in terms of bullet selection rather than blame the calibre.
The 6.5 is just as capable as any other calibre and gives you the flexibility to shoot anything on our shores and a lot beyond.
I certainly would not like to stop one like george best used to stop a ball on his chest.
Bullet placement, design and speed is the important things. To the op look at how little powder you can use to get a chosen bullet up to speed within a well designed case if you are concerned about your hearing and recoil. The 6.5x47l is a good effiecent design
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I am not sure the calibre is the challenge per se, it’s having the correct bullet. Roe are smaller than most other species of deer, so not a lot of mass. A heavy for calibre bullet will punch straight through, whereas a light for calibre bullet will cause a bigger wound channel. I find a 140gn softpoint or 130gn Fox non toxic in 7x57 very effective. 243 is good, but I do find the very soft RWS is quite messy.
Whilst I have got rid of mine I have to say a .243 shooting 70-90grn was always very hard to beat.
I replaced mine with. 6.5x55 and currently use 120grn Barnes ttsx. They do a fair bit of damage but I can’t really notice any difference in recoil from the .243.
Also in my opinion large calibre doesn’t necessarily mean lots of meat damage. I shot a roe buck with my .30-06 shooting 220grn bonded round nose whilst I was in Sweden moose hunting and we ate it throughout the week, there was very little damage. Guns are like knives and the best one is the one you have with you!
I replaced mine with. 6.5x55 and currently use 120grn Barnes ttsx. They do a fair bit of damage but I can’t really notice any difference in recoil from the .243.
Also in my opinion large calibre doesn’t necessarily mean lots of meat damage. I shot a roe buck with my .30-06 shooting 220grn bonded round nose whilst I was in Sweden moose hunting and we ate it throughout the week, there was very little damage. Guns are like knives and the best one is the one you have with you!
6pt-sika
Well-Known Member
Never seen a living Roe Deer in person in my life so obviousely I've never shot one . However strangely enough I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about a choice for a rifle if I were ever able to cross the pond and plunk a few of them . My first thought was a 243 WIN , then I thought the 260 REM and both of these with an appropriate bullet should be good to 300 meters if you're capable of holding the gun . Now if I were ever able to make the journey I'm now thinking the 6.5 Grendel could be an even better choice especially from high seats where shots won't exceed 200 meters . Don't get me wrong I still like my 260 and 6.5x55 and 6.5-06 and 26 Nosler , but I've come to realize that the little Grendel and the little 6.5x47 Lapua can be usefull game rounds . At the moment I have no less then 3 Grendels my first was an AR-15 of course and with handloads it's easily a sub 1/2 MOA rifle , the second I acquired was an El Cheapo Howa Mini with a little short pencil barrel and believe it or not it shoots about as well as the AR , the third I acquired is a CZ 527 HB and that one is a shooter Deluxe I've shot two sub 1/10 MOA groups with the gun so far . Now while this thing is called an HB the barrel is more like a heaver magnum weight barrel so for a lot of people it wouldn't be overly heavy to carry to a high seat shall we say . Gun was bought new by me about a year ago and at the moment is set up just for paper punching with a Leupold 24x BR scope . For you goes on the Continent these little CZ's would be good for you in that they come from the factory already threaded for a suppressor .
Anyway if I were on the way to the UK/Ireland for Roe only most likely I'd bring Gredel especially if it was high seats only . If it was stalking only I'd most likely bring a 260 REM .
Anyway if I were on the way to the UK/Ireland for Roe only most likely I'd bring Gredel especially if it was high seats only . If it was stalking only I'd most likely bring a 260 REM .
I too have spent a not inconsiderable amount of time pondering this conundrum and have concluded the answer is simple:
Whatever rifle you have about your shoulder at the time of encountering our wee woodland friend.
No roe has spent sleepless nights worrying about what he/she is going to be zapped with!
K
Whatever rifle you have about your shoulder at the time of encountering our wee woodland friend.
No roe has spent sleepless nights worrying about what he/she is going to be zapped with!
K
6pt-sika
Well-Known Member
I spent several years looking for what I considered to be the perfect rifle and or rifles for use in the UK and Ireland for mostly Roe , Sika and perhaps a Red . I wanted a Mannlicher Schoenauer MC/MCA stutzen in 270 WIN and or 243 WIN . I first acquired a 243 MCA of early 60's vintage then the 270 MC of early 60's vintage and then a 308 MCA of mid 60's vintage followed and about 6 months ago an 06 MC of late 50's vintages filled out the group . I think I'd still like an MC or MCA stutzen in 6.5x54 but I'm not holding my breath .
First pic is this past season the 243 shooting handloaded Speer 105 spitzers , next the 270 with a pair from this past season , then the 308 with a deer from 2017 and finally a pic of the 06 I've not plunked one with it yet . Incidently I killed four deer with the 270 last season and used a different handload for each deer all with the same sight in at 100 yards . The two in the picture below were each killed with a different bullet .
FWIW , I first became aware of MS rifles when I was about 5 years old in 1966 . My father had a 1960 Shooters Bible my mother gave him for their first anniversary and I wore that book out mostly looking at the Mannlicher Schoenauer guns and the little Steyr Zephyr Mannlicher stocked 22LR . So it's safe to say I've liked these guns for well over 50 years . And yeah I still want a Steyr Zepheyr mannlicher stocked of course .
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savdp
Well-Known Member
It was listed earlier in the thread, but I would go with the 250 Savage, but "Improved" if I was to build a rifle. For hunting purposes in the UK, the .25 cal is hard to beat. Bullet selection is good, while there is a current fascination with high ballistic coefficients (sniping deer at 500m???), if you can shoot your rifle accurately, it counts for alot more than BC. The cartridge is very efficient, can be chambered in a short action, with a relatively short barrel without losing much in performance (which I think makes a difference in the rifles balance if using a moderator).
.222
End of thread
If not legal
Move to Scotland....
End of thread
If not legal
Move to Scotland....
Wouldn't mind trying the 7x45 Ingram or 7mm TCU. Not quite as flat shooting as the smaller .223 based cartridges, but capable of being legal for all UK deer.
Rake Aboot
Well-Known Member
.222. Moderated it's an awesome round for Roe and bloody quiet if you use a decent moderator.
Shoot 55's through it and it will drop any and all Roe.
As said, if you need to move to Scotland to shoot it, it's a small price to pay.
In fact, I'm going to state here that .222 is the best calibre,in the world, ever. end off.
Shoot 55's through it and it will drop any and all Roe.
As said, if you need to move to Scotland to shoot it, it's a small price to pay.
In fact, I'm going to state here that .222 is the best calibre,in the world, ever. end off.
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