Permissions - The Ongoing Struggle

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I’m sure there are members on here with thousands upon thousands of acres of permission to shoot on. I am also sure there are members on here with very small shooting permissions.

Now my question to you all is - How?

I’ve really been struggling recently to find any permissions for any type of shooting. With most replies (if I get any reply at all) being “we already have somone” or the more prevalent one being “we have an old guy that’s been doing it for years, he never really comes but we don’t want to tell him to leave and upset him”

I’m all for everyone having a bit of ground to shoot on - However, it seems to be that a lot of ground, around me at least is taken up by “old boots” for lack of a better phrase.

I always offer to shoot vermin and never ask for permission to shoot deer straight away. But even this is a struggle.

I have over 15 years shooting experience, over 10 years of experience in the military and police (firearms), fully insured and DSC1. I have tried door knocking, calls, emails, letters, business cards, even Facebook adds.

How does everyone do it? For context I live close to High Wycombe
 

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My intention was to add to the afformentioned. The reason the farmer had no-one fishing nor shooting was he had previously 'entertained' individuals and clubs on his land. These had proved untrustworthy and shown a level of disdain and cavalier attitude towards stock, fencing, stone walls & litter etc.
In that case, there's your in. Start by offering to actually do bits like that as you notice them. First time chatting with my land owner, he mentioned fencing and wanting a stile put in. I offered to do it for nothing. Went down a week or so later and got to work.

Certainly a good way to establish a reciprocal arrangement and trust.

If I'm out and notice anything, I'll snap a pic and offer to sort it (if it's within my skill set anyway)
 
My intention was to add to the afformentioned. The reason the farmer had no-one fishing nor shooting was he had previously 'entertained' individuals and clubs on his land. These had proved untrustworthy and shown a level of disdain and cavalier attitude towards stock, fencing, stone walls & litter etc.
Some people don't know how lucky they are until they've lost it.
 
As has been said in previous posts; do whatever it takes to become part of the local rural community. Be the person who helps when others may not, the rewards will come your way. It took me many years to find my permissions, and I ended up gaining a lot of experience and knowledge earning them.

Something to bear in mind as well; I get to see it from a farmers perspective… we get a lot of people coming to us offering to shoot pests as if they are going to be the saviour of the farm; and that we should fall over backwards to welcome them. I can’t vouch for all, but that’s a big red flag to us.
 
My son and I were recently asked to take on a land permission that was a bit big for us alone, so we hunted round and gathered a small pool of guys (some we already knew, some were recommended) who were either fairly new to stalking and needing experience, or those that were struggling to find land to shoot over, or had no/lost permissions. Now have a pool of 7 with experience ranging from 30 years to 1 year, with a max of 4 out at a time. It seems to work well as it isn't an open permission for everyone. We hold the license, and all cull days are advised beforehand and one of the two license holders have to be present at all outings. It has had to be done on trust, and the pool members are there by invitation only, so anyone found to be taking the Mick will be swiftly uninvited. Because the selection was pretty careful, we don't expect this to be an issue. It is a model that others could use as well, especially if they have more land than they can deal with alone.
 
My son and I were recently asked to take on a land permission that was a bit big for us alone, so we hunted round and gathered a small pool of guys (some we already knew, some were recommended) who were either fairly new to stalking and needing experience, or those that were struggling to find land to shoot over, or had no/lost permissions. Now have a pool of 7 with experience ranging from 30 years to 1 year, with a max of 4 out at a time. It seems to work well as it isn't an open permission for everyone. We hold the license, and all cull days are advised beforehand and one of the two license holders have to be present at all outings. It has had to be done on trust, and the pool members are there by invitation only, so anyone found to be taking the Mick will be swiftly uninvited. Because the selection was pretty careful, we don't expect this to be an issue. It is a model that others could use as well, especially if they have more land than they can deal with alone.
How many acres do you have and how many deer did you see needing to be culled annually? Just wondering where the breakover point was for you or if it was more of an opportunity to get guys involved. Which I think is great by the way.
 
As has been said in previous posts; do whatever it takes to become part of the local rural community. Be the person who helps when others may not, the rewards will come your way. It took me many years to find my permissions, and I ended up gaining a lot of experience and knowledge earning them.

Something to bear in mind as well; I get to see it from a farmers perspective… we get a lot of people coming to us offering to shoot pests as if they are going to be the saviour of the farm; and that we should fall over backwards to welcome them. I can’t vouch for all, but that’s a big red flag to us.
The countryside, farming and game keeping world has its own etiquette that I think many people not from a rural background don't understand. I worked in agriculture for many years and started my long shooting career, beating, working spaniels , helping game keepers, etc, to get the stalking that I had when I lived in the UK. It's the same as living here in Sweden. Although I owned my own forest property I got a lot of my hunting contacts through my dog work. To me it not about just pulling the trigger it about all the thing that make up the country side and hunting scene.
 
How many acres do you have and how many deer did you see needing to be culled annually? Just wondering where the breakover point was for you or if it was more of an opportunity to get guys involved. Which I think is great by the way.
It is about 800 acres, with a cull of 60-80. The problem lay in having to work around other activities on the estate that limited when stalking could occur, plus work commitments etc which limited it further, and the spread-out nature of the estate. Having 4 people out at any time increased the chances of culling transient animals. For the game dealer to collect, we also needed at least 6 animals, which is tricky if there are not many of you culling.

There was also a strong desire to get guys involved who were otherwise struggling to get permissions or stalking opportunities. We have deliberately not included people who already have access to stalking.

As said, it is done on an invite basis. There are no costs, shot fees, trophy fees or syndicate membership fees to pay. As with most things, as soon as money is involved, the dynamics change - usually for the worse!
 
It is about 800 acres, with a cull of 60-80. The problem lay in having to work around other activities on the estate that limited when stalking could occur, plus work commitments etc which limited it further, and the spread-out nature of the estate. Having 4 people out at any time increased the chances of culling transient animals. There was also a strong desire to get guys involved who were otherwise struggling to get permissions or stalking opportunities. We have deliberately not included people who already have access to stalking.
That’s a great opportunity for those without land. Good work on sharing the wealthy.👍
 
I am one of those guys that you refer to as 'Old Boots'.

Being 85 years old and having lived in the same rural Suffolk village for 44 years I can tell you exactly how you get deer stalking in the local area.

Patience and perseverence my friend. Nothing comes to you easily unless you have lots of cash to spare. I don't have the cash but I have lots of patience.

When I moved into this area I didn't know a soul who lived closer than 50 miles away. It takes time, lots and lots of time. You gradually get to know people if you go to the right places. These can be churches, pubs, shops, any place that farmers and like minded peple to yourself might go.
Also, always turn up when people are in need. If someones car get stuck in a ditch, then make sure you are there to pull it out. If your local Neighbourhood Watch group flounders be the one to make it work again. Set up a food bank when needed. Save the local RBL group when it flounders. Assist the local Scout group when they need a bit of help. All of this I have done and many, many other things as well.

Also help with hedges, ditches, beating for free, pigeon control, bunny bashing, assisting the local keeper. Infact anything that gets you onto the farms - Large or small - Deer or no deer.

I am now part of the community but I have worked bloody hard to get accepted. And on the way I have aquired a fair amount of ground where I can go and stalk a deer or two. It is hardly prime stalking ground. Mainly wide open arable with a few small woods and fields that are the size of small airports, but I get a few munties, CWD and roe from it. The meat, after I have hung and butchered the carcase, goes either to me or the farmer (50/50) or gets distributed around the village to those who want it.

It took years to get where I am today, half a lifetime infact, and it won't last much longer because of my age but I think I have earn't it and mean to enjoy it for as long as I possible can.

Don't dispair my friend - Just keep plodding away and then one day you will be in the right place at the right time.

It can also go the other way. I have lost my best three farms in the last year and will probably loose another in the next due farms being split up or sold as their owners get old along side of me.
 
Personal connections.

All the variations of ‘we already have someone’ are a polite way of saying ‘I don’t know you and I’m not really keen to have an unknown wandering around armed in my land’.
Exactly.

I have gained a few permissions on farms that were previously unknown to me but I was able to explain that I shot on a number of other farms which they knew of.

I was brought up on a farm and understand the concerns that farmers have about people wandering around their property. A lot would rather suffer the damage from pests than have a stranger come in and cause trouble.
 
As far as we can tell there aren’t enough individual pieces of ground for everyone to shoot recreationally - most private land owners have keepers or staff with a rural background who control the deer… they certainly don’t want anyone unknown shooting on their ground, and if they do they’ll want serious money to do so.

What isn’t owned privately is controlled by forestry.

The last issue is that we regularly hear the same complaints from those generous enough to take people out on their ground for free - they find the person who they invited then attempts to engage with the landowner and steal their ground.

In America there are huge sections of public land where anyone can go and shoot - we have nothing like that here, and our population is very dense. With 130k total firearms license holders, once you remove target shooters, rimfire shooters, etc there are probably well under 50k deer stalkers in the U.K.

Sure there are a few who have more ground than they can sensibly manage, but there aren’t many of them so they probably aren’t the problem.

Our advice is to stick with it and buy whatever stalking days you can afford - eventually something will come along.
 
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