Personal Experience and Thoughts Now on Thermal Deer Stalking

[Budgie Smuggler]

I would really like to hear SD Members thoughts on using thermal cameras for deer stalking. I'm not after the reasons we do or don't use them, I understand the pressures some face and I understand the reluctance of some not to use them.
I am more interested in peoples personal experiences on if they feel they have lost or gained fieldcraft, stalking ability, understanding of deer behaviour, if the mystery of their ground has been lost or if they have a more detailed understanding of it. If people who use them sometimes leave them at home etc.
The different types of ground you use them on and if those who use them wish they'd had them all their stalking lives or glad they didn't.
It's the differences to the individual I'm really interested to hear.
Obviously I would love this thread to flow without people bashing others peoples opinions as we learn nothing from that.
And you really are not allowed to mention anything Police related because thats getting really old.
(Yes I know I just said Jehovah, but that doesn't mean you can)
Looking forward to your replies,

G.

 

[User00040]

If you have a lot of ground to cover and a cull target to meet then thermal spotters are a life-saver.

Spotting deer is a skill but so is stalking them.

Thermal riflescopes are another matter entirely!

 

[Stalker62]

Last year I bought TI - Pulsar Helion XQ38F (shout out to Macleod's of Tain).

I prefer a morning stalk. A lifetime of doing what I did for a living, means I am always in my seat way too early. This used to mean, a cold and uninteresting wait for the sun to rise.

Now, I can scan and enjoy what shares the day with me; be that badger, fox, hare, mouse, or even, the occasional deer. In my life, it is not used to help me stalk or take deer, but it does make for a more interesting morning.

A hefty "investment", but when sat in a seat before the earth has turned into the sun, a worthwhile one.

 

[Freeforester]

Far more helpful than space and time would permit, but as all say, a game changer. Up to the individual user to make the best use of same for their own experience, but a boon in letting you know what’s in front of you, not only deer, but stopping you from bumping into eg pheasants, etc. Great to locate an individual animal and thereafter observe quietly. We could all benefit from more time out in the field observing without the rifle, I feel. Been at it near 40 years now, still learning and figuring out behavioural traits, etc. Would still watch and video them without a rifle. Back to the thermal - a decent one with reasonable field of view is such a great bit of kit to make you more aware of what’s there, but after that, it’s up to you what you do with the information thus garnered.

 

[JH83]

I have a few observations about thermal spotters. I strongly feel that a new stalker should avoid them for several years, really learn to stalk without first, largely due to the possibility that you’ll find yourself without at some point and you don’t want to be absolutely lost...it’s hard to argue it doesn’t make stalking so much easier. I think they can be a huge distraction and time waster in inexperienced hands, the images need the context that can only be gained with raw experience. I took a novice out with me who brought a thermal with him....never again. stopping every 20 seconds to look at a squirrel or a sheep!

Other than that it’s down to personal preference. Are you stalking for sport, to achieve a cull or a bit of both. I have some bits that require numbers taking, other bits where there is no pressure so I’ll vary the use of thermal. I do think it’s good to keep in touch with basic skills...and there absolutely no substance to that it’s pure opinion

 

[Mungo]

Very useful and informative tool.

You learn a great deal very quickly about things you were missing before, and see a lot you would never have noticed - both general wildlife and deer.

Just how effective it is varies based on conditions and terrain. Very best is something like open hillside or moor in cold weather without much sunshine - then deer absolutely pop out where once you could have spent hours searching with bins, and still not seen them. At the other end, clear fell or rocky hillside on a sunny day and it's next to useless, and you're much better off using bins. Obviously it completely transforms nigh work.

However I use them with bins, rather than to replace bins. I find you lose what I call 'situational awareness' if you rely solely on thermal - your overall sense of the landscape and habitat deteriorates.

It's also important to realise that they help you spot deer - but you still have to stalk and shoot them, which is as much a challenge as it has always been. In some ways, it creates additional challenge - you see deer in more hidden, inaccessible places you would never have seen them in before, and those places can be much harder to get into than a field margin or open ride!

 

[shortshot]

Changed the job totally. Greatly increases success rates. Cheats the modern sportsman of needing 70% of previously required skills. With a thermal you can stalk at 5x the speed outside of thicket wood.
But the modern world keeps telling us we need to “kill more deer.”

 

[willie_gunn]

I held off buying a thermal camera because it smacks - to me at least - of being somehow “unfair” or “unsporting”. Illogical, though, and I would think many stalkers felt the same when riflescopes and binoculars were first introduced.

Having now used one for a few weeks, 90% of which is for woodland stalking, I have found it certainly increases the number of deer you spot. Not deer in the open, necessarily, but also deer obscured by a lot of undergrowth. I have been surprised at how many deer I’ve seen with the thermal that, even knowing they are there, are impossible to see with binoculars let alone the naked eye. Particularly at first light the thermal can let you know where deer are. Last weekend I stopped the car in the normal place, scanned the hedge 125 yards behind me and could see a roe buck and doe bedded down. Even knowing exactly where they were, I couldn’t see them through the Swaro’s.

However, I can also see how you can become overly-reliant on them. Again last weekend I was using the thermal, only to then have a roe doe and kid appear, unbeknownst to me, to my left-hand side. The field of view of the thermal is pretty restrictive, which means quite a lot of time is spent panning the area in front looking for a thermal signature. That’s a significant amount of movement - movement that will signal itself to deer.

I’ve also noticed how using the thermal can become a little compulsive, certainly if you have a general interest in wildlife. I’m spending a lot more time now looking at hares, owls, other BoP, etc simply because I am now aware they are there.

With lockdown it has been a challenge hitting the cull numbers, and in that respect the thermal certainly seems to pay for itself. I would conservatively estimate that at least 25% of the deer I’ve shot since using the thermal have only been shot because of using the thermal. Prior spotting of deer approaching out of thick cover, in particular, has been a significant factor. In thick conifer that warning can be invaluable in preventing you bumping a deer.

 

[Woodsmoke]

I think they're incredible bits of kit, and invaluable if you actually need one.

But . . . .

Do I need one? No

Do I want one? No

Do I think less of those who use them? No

 

[Dhindes]

I have stalked with two people on grounds just 15 mins from each other. One with thermal, one without. Very different experiences. The one with thermal was fast walking through the woods, spot groups of deer with thermal - they had already seen us as we were moving so fast / noise, they would be off before you get on the sticks. The other without thermal, slow careful stalk, lots of glassing - shot deer who never knew we were there.
Much preferred stalk with out thermal. Have been with people who use them to find deer after shot, or use them sparingly - this seems fine to me but I would generally prefer not to have them used for the stalk.

 

[Tim.243]

I brought mine for foxing as when I go out the soul purpose is to shoot foxes, it has developed into spotting deer with my main quarry being Muntjac the size is closer compared to a Fallow V Fox.
It makes the session wandering round on a bitterly cold night more effective also over this last year with a huge increase of numbers of people wandering around at every hour of the day/night a tool worth hanging around my neck.
Using it for deer I have found the "heads up " usage of it most useful with a good example of I spotted a muntjac coming through cover to an opening I have shot many times right behind her was a tiny follower who had I shot the doe and never managed to shoot it given the weather conditions and size it would have been in a world of trouble, 25 mins later a buck passed through and came home in the truck.

For the anti thermal stalkers who reload my money is they have up-graded using digital vernier and scales...
No going back to a slide rule for them lol

 

[75]

The one with thermal was fast walking through the woods, spot groups of deer with thermal - they had already seen us as we were moving so fast / noise, they would be off before you get on the sticks.

That's no reflection on the thermal, that's just a crap stalker.

 

[Tim.243]

I have stalked with two people on grounds just 15 mins from each other. One with thermal, one without. Very different experiences. The one with thermal was fast walking through the woods, spot groups of deer with thermal - they had already seen us as we were moving so fast / noise, they would be off before you get on the sticks. The other without thermal, slow careful stalk, lots of glassing - shot deer who never knew we were there.
Much preferred stalk with out thermal. Have been with people who use them to find deer after shot, or use them sparingly - this seems fine to me but I would generally prefer not to have them used for the stalk.

I shoot a wood with a friend using my thermal spotter we walk slow regardless of using it, the cull numbers are up on muntjac as to quote him " How many have I walked past before and not known they were there "

Tagging thermals to walking fast is not a fair representation of both thermal and stalkers.....

 

[Ronin]

Accurately allows you to assess what animals you have on your ground and formulate cull plan based on those obs, damage , and trod use/ droppings if you go into that level of detail

It provides quick scanning ability on open areas that would otherwise be difficult with your eyes and bins

They enable you to scan for carcass in the event of a runner

They do not replace stalking skills getting into a position one may take a humane killing shot

Very useful tool that assists semi and professional deer management practice

 

[llwynog]

As others have said, it depends on what you need to do.
As a management tool it is great you can see numbers easier.
If you need to put deer on the ground at least you know there's some there to shoot, it'll never replace the fieldcraft required to get close to them and in a safe position for that shot.
Just remember because you've used a thermal to find them doesn't mean you have to shoot them.

 

[T.eddie]

seems to be similar in either you like it or dont for X or Y as the drone argument albeit a little further along, it is interesting to see where the individual "lines" are and how changing times dictate what is normal or acceptable etc

 

[User00025]

I'm afraid I'm a dinosaur, well, old fashioned to say the least. Ok I use a scope, but only due to slowly failing eyesight. I have used a spotter belonging to a keeper friend when foxing, they are useful then, but not for me.
When I need one to help locate deer I'm afraid that will be the day I pack up or snuff it.

 

[Mungo]

I will say it takes a bit of practice to get used to using one and develop the discipline to use it properly.

There is - as has been mentioned - quite a strong temptation to speed up and just scan with the thermal, because you can. This works in some contexts - such as when you’re in the dark/cover of a forest margin and scanning large open areas of moor, clear fell or valley side at long range. It absolutely doesn’t in others - like in woodland, where you need to stalk properly.

I think the two most effective ways to use it are:

1. At long range, where you scan large areas quickly to see if there’s something there, and decide whether that area is worth a stalk. That can save hours of wasted time.

2. In thick cover, where you still stalk very slowly, and scan every few steps, but can now really be certain of what you’re looking at.

It’s also extremely handy to check those pear hags, tree stumps, patches of heather and rocks that look suspiciously deer like...

 

[Tim.243]

I'm afraid I'm a dinosaur, well, old fashioned to say the least. Ok I use a scope, but only due to slowly failing eyesight. I have used a spotter belonging to a keeper friend when foxing, they are useful then, but not for me.
When I need one to help locate deer I'm afraid that will be the day I pack up or snuff it.

Are you reloading your rounds?

 

[User00025]

Are you reloading your rounds?

Strange question so I'll give a strange answer.
Only the blackpowder ones, I only have to sharpen the arrows or spear.