Pitting in used guns

[WSSX]

Nothing better to do with my bank holiday so thought I’d have a bit of fun on Gun Trader. One thing I noticed is a dealer who regularly lists a number of used rifles as having varying levels of pitting inside the barrel. In fact, of 52 used guns, 10 - all centrefires - are listed this way. It made me wonder if they’re looking more closely than others, being more honest or deliberately picking up flawed guns they believe still have some life left in them.

I’m not sure how easy it is to detect pitting without a borescope, which I guess might be one reason it’s a word rarely seen in the classifieds. Ultimately I suppose it makes little difference what the gun or bore looks like if it shoots straight, I just find this vaguely interesting as it possibly suggests that a larger proportion of guns sold suffer from this issue but that it tends to go unmentioned.

 

[Tom D]

If they say it on the ad then the buyer can't come back and complain its pitted..

 

[Woodsmoke]

My 22-250 was advertised as having 'slight pitting' in the bore, but still grouped sub-MOA. And to be honest, no matter how closely I looked, I couldn't ever see it

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

how do they shoot?.....

 

[User00003]

I’ve had some brno’s In the past with real bad pitting, and they shot like a dream! They were also sold without mention of pitting!

once I bought a 22-250 from sportsman’s guncentre, and the bolt has was so badly pitted from primer cutting I was jaw dropped!! When I raised it they said I could just get my money back, but it was a good deal,,so what was I complaining about..jeez...

also once bought a Mauser where part of the bolt face was broken off, so couldn’t even hold a cartridge, let alone extract one!!! Now that was t mention either!

Every gun I’ve bought from Holts has been pitted despite the gun room emailing that bore is ‘good’ or ‘mirror’

how important is it?? Well, a pitted gun can shoot beautifully for years, but it will go before a non-pitted barrel.

i personally don’t like the look of pitting, so try to avoid guns unless they have clean bores.

whats probably more important to look at, is throat erosion and depth of grooves, which can make a barrel useless even though it’s clean and mirror!

 

[enfieldspares]

I had a Colt 1911 pistol in .45 ACP made in about 1913 that had a bore like the inside of a drainpipe. It was near black and the rifling looked as if it had been drawn on with a crayon it was that that indiscernible. It shot, one handed, consistently sub-two inch groups at twenty yards. I have never owned a more accurate Colt 1911 and I owned over the course of twenty years several.

Pitted guns may have been, and are, an issue if you still shoot ammunition with corrosive primers or of they cause the bore to foul with bullet material. As modern ammunition is not corrosive primed and as pitting is rarely the cause of causing a bore to foul with bullet material it is today mainly a issue of cosmetics.

In a shot gun it is not quite the same issue as the barrel walls are thinner. In a rifle that is not a concern. A pit in a rifle will never become a hole through the barrel walls. In a shot gun especially if the barrels are at some future time required to have a dent removed and/or to be struck-off and re-blacked that possibility can be a major concern.

 

[WSSX]

Well I'm pretty sure I couldn't spot throat erosion if it was in front of me and probably couldn't question the depth of rifling unless I had it alongside something I knew to be ok! I guess you put some faith in the dealer or get the seller to demonstrate capabilities. Or perhaps try to take it back if you can't hit a barn door...

Interesting stories - or warnings! - though, thanks!

 

[ChesterP]

Ask to have the barrel bore-scoped before purchase. I bought one described as in very good condition with a clean bore. It turned out to be so badly fire-cracked and pitted that it was tearing little lumps of copper off the bullets, which built up so that after a clean barrel and taking three shots, groups opened up to 8 or 9 inches at 100 yds. I had it independently bore scoped but the commercial seller (no one on here but a well known small shop not that far from Gloucester lets just say a few miles West of Gloucester...a dishonest, rude and thoroughly dishonest dealer well known for doing things like this) refused to provide a refund. Transpired he wasn't a member of the GTA or BASC, and even trading standards didn't want to know. Caveat Emptor when buying used rifles...get them bore scoped or if the dealer refuses, walk away unless they are 100% willing to refund if the rifle doesn't shoot well. A replacement barrel costs as much as many used rifles, so I would never buy used now in CF unless the bore was excellent or buying for a donor action.

 

[1894]

In older quality rifles like BRNO ZG47 etc I've not found pitting to degrade accuracy. And I'm talking serious pitting and throat wear. I wonder if the stress relieving of a few thousand rounds cancels out pitting.

 

[Steff]

Unless you know the seller and know his cleaning routine you may well expect that every used rifle sold has pitting to a certain degree.
Just a few months ago a friend of mine asked me to inspect his barrels as I have a Hawkeye borescope. Even though otherwise in good condition the barrels were all pitted.

 

[WSSX]

Unless you know the seller and know his cleaning routine you may well expect that every used rifle sold has pitting to a certain degree.
Just a few months ago a friend of mine asked me to inspect his barrels as I have a Hawkeye borescope. Even though otherwise in good condition the barrels were all pitted.

Out of interest, was anything visible from the crown end to the naked eye or does it require a close inspection like this to see it? I ask because my barrels look pretty smooth and shiny to me after cleaning (with the bolts out and using a light source at the other end)...

 

[Steff]

If the pitting goes up to the end of the barrel you will also be able to see it by looking down the muzzle. But without magnification it is often hard to see.

 

[lochty]

Out of interest, was anything visible from the crown end to the naked eye or does it require a close inspection like this to see it? I ask because my barrels look pretty smooth and shiny to me after cleaning (with the bolts out and using a light source at the other end)...

A bore scope is pretty much the only way to see it. By the time you can see pitting with the naked eye, the barrel will have had it. FYI my Tikka has a Krieger barrel, gets cleaned properly after use, and a quick look with a bore scope recently revealed some traces of copper and fire cracks starting to appear after 600 factory rounds or so. But it still shoots 1" groups at 100 yards and knocks reds, roe and fallow over, so I have ceased to worry....

 

[bryn]

If you buy a second hand rifle then you take a chance. If you buy one without seeing down the freshly cleaned barrel with a bore scope then you take an even bigger chance.
The process has pitfalls much the same as buying a second hand car, how many people buy such a car without looking under the bonnet even if you’re not quite sure what you are looking for.
I would want to know what ammunition it shoots well with and what grouping can I expect and I would want to hear that I can bring it straight back if I’m not happy. So called round counts may be true but what does the rifle in front tell you.
There are good firearms dealer/sellers and then not so good.

A good and regular cleaning regime extends the life of a barrel and ONE of the main causes of pitting is moisture. If you go from a cold environment to a warm one then condensation on the outside of the barrel indicates condensation on the inside, mix that with carbon and you get acid. You also get rust.

I have a 22-250 that shoots exceptionally accurately but bore scoped looks awful, lots of pitting and waring of the lands.
If I clean it then it needs 3 to 4 fouling shoots to get it back on track. I will probably get it re barrelled IF the time comes but I would not sell it on without the buyer getting to look down the barrel with a bore scope, giving a potted history and allowing the purchaser to shoot it (with me of course). Once seen by a firearms dealer I doubt I would get scrape value for it.

bryn

 

[TheOldGamey]

I thought I looked after my rifle barrels well, always cleaning them and drying them off. I decided to sell a Sauer 202 barrel I stopped using as I had changed calibre's , but before advertising it, when at my local gunsmith, I asked him to check it over, as I did not want to sell it , and the new owner not happy, I was shocked and could not believe how pitted it was, and yet looking through the bore it looked spot on. I scrapped the barrel. A few days later I purchased a borescope and can keep a check on the barrel condition now. An expensive toy, but money well spent in my eyes.

Bill

 

[hybridfiat]

I'd have to agree with the posters here.
My No4 Mk1 has a bore that is less than desirable because the previous owner fired 3 rounds (corrosive primed) about 35 yrs ago then lost interest, wrapped it up and left it in the shed.
Yet it consistently groups 1.5moa or less with the peep sights. Not bad for a Lee Enfield.
My .243 has a very old barrel that accumulates copper fouling at a prodigious rate but groups 1 MOA.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Does get frustrating when people ask about bore condition over and above accuracy.
I try to test fire all of our used rifles to prove they are fit for purpose

All bores of used rifles will show imperfections, fouling, pits, land edge degradation
you don't need a borescope to see pitting,

none of it matters if it doesn't shoot

Had a few rifles that look spotless but don't shoot under an inch

Had plenty that looked like rusty drainpipes but could out-shoot most shooters. Can't give them away!!

My first .222 had almost an entire section of rifling missing for several inches
Shot ragged holes with anything I fed it including 60gr bullets

 

[goathunter1]

All of which goes to prove, I think, that rifle barrels are a black art. Listening to some of the competitive shooters, they know that. People wait in line for the top guys to sell off a barrel that has a proven history of success. Yes, the shooters are good. But they are all good. That witchcraft barrel makes the difference. Look at some of the photos on the various stalking pages. Rubbishy old rifles, stocks all beaten up, rusted barrels, 4x scopes. Never miss!