@Conor O'Gorman , have BASC challenged the legality of this?
Police delay
- Thread starter BenBhoy
- Start date
Sinistral
Well-Known Member
This thread ties in with the other one on the go here in 'Legal Issues' which is referring to a friend & 3rd party. As the OP's issue on that might be hypothetical I don't care to answer it, apart from saying that the ground rules changed in August last year.
The police can no longer issue a Section 7 Temporary Permit at will. If the 8-week S.28 extension elapses without a renewed FAC or SGC, they can now legally insist that firearms/shotguns are lodged with an RFD (6.7 - 6.10 need to be read as a whole).
FIREARMS LICENSING: Statutory Guidance for Chief Officers of Police – 2025 issue
Limited automatic extension of certificates
6.4 The chief officer should normally make a decision on an application for renewal before the expiry of the certificate or registration, provided that the application has been made at least 8 weeks before the date of the expiry of the certificate. In the case of firearms and shotguns, where an application for renewal has been made at least 8 weeks before the date of the expiry of the certificate, and the police have not been able to make a decision on the application by the date of expiry, a limited extension of the certificate automatically comes into effect.
The extension begins from the original expiry date of the certificate for a period of 8 weeks or until the police decide the application, whichever occurs first. This extension period allows the police a further period in which to decide the application. This is a statutory extension provided by section 28B of the Firearms Act 1968 and is intended to provide a safety net for applicants in exceptional circumstances where the police are unable to process and decide a case before the original expiry date of the applicant’s certificate. During this period of extension the applicant will remain entitled to possess, purchase and acquire firearms and ammunition as per the conditions of the original certificate. Chief officers should facilitate this extended entitlement by ensuring that the applicant is provided with a letter or other clear evidence that the certificate benefits from the automatic statutory extension. (A suitable letter is provided on the National Firearms Licensing Management System (or SHOGUN in Scotland)).
6.5 The chief officer must always endeavour to make a timely decision on an application that benefits from the extended 8 week period before expiry of the extension period. A failure to do so will leave the applicant without a lawful basis for the possession of their firearms or shotguns and associated ammunition. Should such circumstances arise, the police should work with the applicant to make the necessary arrangements for the safe, legal storage of their property until such time as the application is decided, or the police may consider the issue of a temporary permit, issued in accordance with section 7 of the Firearms Act 1968 (see below).
Section 7 police permit
6.6 Section 7 of the Firearms Act 1968 allows chief officers to issue a temporary permit to allow for the lawful possession of a firearm and ammunition in accordance with the terms that are set out in the permit. These permits may be used to allow a certificate holder to continue to possess their firearms and ammunition where their certificate is about to expire and an application for renewal has been received. This can apply to circumstances both where an application has been received more or less than 8 weeks before expiry. These permits should not be used routinely to benefit applicants who do not submit timely renewal applications e.g. less than 8 weeks, unless in exceptional circumstances. Temporary permits should not be issued to those who are uncooperative with the police while consideration is being given to their application.
6.7 The police must be satisfied that the issue of a section 7 police permit does not give rise to any public safety risk, which can normally only be determined after full consideration of their renewal application. Therefore, section 7 permits issued to provide more time to consider a renewal application should only be on an exceptional basis and where unavoidable.
Police are encouraged prior to issuing the temporary permit to check if there are other options, for example in cases of bereavement of a certificate holder, whether they go to another licence holder or RFD. Where required, temporary permits should be supplied with an end date no longer than is reasonable to cover the expected period of processing and should not be issued if no renewal application has been received.
6.8 Chief officers should also avoid routinely using temporary permits as a means of managing licensing caseloads within their force.
6.9 Chief Officers should ensure that their firearms licensing departments are sufficiently resourced to enable effective processing of applications, to avoid the need to rely routinely on the use of section 7 permits.
6.10 While it is the case that some police forces have made significant use of section 7 permits in the past to help manage certificate renewal backlogs with large numbers of people subject to these permits, this practice must now be avoided as it conflicts with the principle of maintaining efficient and effective licensing arrangements.
6.11 Certificate holders must not be asked to rely on an expired certificate or registration. It is unlawful for them to do so.
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My question still stands, has the legality of this being challenged, I can't think of any situation where a law abiding person is penalised for anothers incompetence, once again we're being shown how weak our shooting organisations actually areThe police can no longer issue a Section 7 Temporary Permit at will. If the 8-week S.28 extension elapses without a renewed FAC or SGC, they can now legally insist that firearms/shotguns are lodged with an RFD (6.7 - 6.10 need to be read as a whole).
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
Small claims court?
So, if he kept the keys he was essentially still in possession of his guns. Appreciate your FEO agreed that but I can’t see many that would.
No idea, but I’d be sending them the bill as I should not incur any cost due to them not being able to carry out their responsibilities in a timely manner.
I can’t see anything in 6.7-6.10 that says police can legally insist guns are put into storage, only that options to issuing sect. 7 permits should be explored in the case of a bereavement. As I read 6.7-6.10, the police should avoid section 7 for renewals by resourcing the FLD sufficiently to allow issue of certificates in time to avoid temporary permits.This thread ties in with the other one on the go here in 'Legal Issues' which is referring to a friend & 3rd party. As the OP's issue on that might be hypothetical I don't care to answer it, apart from saying that the ground rules changed in August last year.
The police can no longer issue a Section 7 Temporary Permit at will. If the 8-week S.28 extension elapses without a renewed FAC or SGC, they can now legally insist that firearms/shotguns are lodged with an RFD (6.7 - 6.10 need to be read as a whole).
FIREARMS LICENSING: Statutory Guidance for Chief Officers of Police – 2025 issue
Limited automatic extension of certificates
6.4 The chief officer should normally make a decision on an application for renewal before the expiry of the certificate or registration, provided that the application has been made at least 8 weeks before the date of the expiry of the certificate. In the case of firearms and shotguns, where an application for renewal has been made at least 8 weeks before the date of the expiry of the certificate, and the police have not been able to make a decision on the application by the date of expiry, a limited extension of the certificate automatically comes into effect.
The extension begins from the original expiry date of the certificate for a period of 8 weeks or until the police decide the application, whichever occurs first. This extension period allows the police a further period in which to decide the application. This is a statutory extension provided by section 28B of the Firearms Act 1968 and is intended to provide a safety net for applicants in exceptional circumstances where the police are unable to process and decide a case before the original expiry date of the applicant’s certificate. During this period of extension the applicant will remain entitled to possess, purchase and acquire firearms and ammunition as per the conditions of the original certificate. Chief officers should facilitate this extended entitlement by ensuring that the applicant is provided with a letter or other clear evidence that the certificate benefits from the automatic statutory extension. (A suitable letter is provided on the National Firearms Licensing Management System (or SHOGUN in Scotland)).
6.5 The chief officer must always endeavour to make a timely decision on an application that benefits from the extended 8 week period before expiry of the extension period. A failure to do so will leave the applicant without a lawful basis for the possession of their firearms or shotguns and associated ammunition. Should such circumstances arise, the police should work with the applicant to make the necessary arrangements for the safe, legal storage of their property until such time as the application is decided, or the police may consider the issue of a temporary permit, issued in accordance with section 7 of the Firearms Act 1968 (see below).
Section 7 police permit
6.6 Section 7 of the Firearms Act 1968 allows chief officers to issue a temporary permit to allow for the lawful possession of a firearm and ammunition in accordance with the terms that are set out in the permit. These permits may be used to allow a certificate holder to continue to possess their firearms and ammunition where their certificate is about to expire and an application for renewal has been received. This can apply to circumstances both where an application has been received more or less than 8 weeks before expiry. These permits should not be used routinely to benefit applicants who do not submit timely renewal applications e.g. less than 8 weeks, unless in exceptional circumstances. Temporary permits should not be issued to those who are uncooperative with the police while consideration is being given to their application.
6.7 The police must be satisfied that the issue of a section 7 police permit does not give rise to any public safety risk, which can normally only be determined after full consideration of their renewal application. Therefore, section 7 permits issued to provide more time to consider a renewal application should only be on an exceptional basis and where unavoidable.
Police are encouraged prior to issuing the temporary permit to check if there are other options, for example in cases of bereavement of a certificate holder, whether they go to another licence holder or RFD. Where required, temporary permits should be supplied with an end date no longer than is reasonable to cover the expected period of processing and should not be issued if no renewal application has been received.
6.8 Chief officers should also avoid routinely using temporary permits as a means of managing licensing caseloads within their force.
6.9 Chief Officers should ensure that their firearms licensing departments are sufficiently resourced to enable effective processing of applications, to avoid the need to rely routinely on the use of section 7 permits.
6.10 While it is the case that some police forces have made significant use of section 7 permits in the past to help manage certificate renewal backlogs with large numbers of people subject to these permits, this practice must now be avoided as it conflicts with the principle of maintaining efficient and effective licensing arrangements.
6.11 Certificate holders must not be asked to rely on an expired certificate or registration. It is unlawful for them to do so.
My personal experience in 2022, paperwork was sent with lots of time, extension was issued for 8 weeks, firearms used as normal and ammunition purchased with extension letter as authority, after the 8 weeks a sect 7 was issued, again firearms used as normal (wording of the sect 7 permitted this) but unable to purchase ammo
This does not state that guns must be lodged with an RFD, only that the police should work with the applicant to ensure that guns are stored legally and safely.
If I have guns in a cabinet in my house that I cannot access (by virtue of not having the keys) that is both legal and safe.
I had a weird back and forth when my SGC was coming close to expiring just after COVID
I got an email saying I'm would need to lodge guns and confirm they had been stored by X date - 3 days before expiry (why?)
I wrote back saying I had given my keys to dad (also a SGC holder) and no longer had access
I got an email back saying that was insufficient as he would have access to shotguns not on his cert
So I wrote to confirm that I'd gifted my guns to dad. He wrote the same to confirm receipt
Cue angry call from FEO to enquire what was I playing at and where were my guns as I'd been instructed to give up possession (bear in mind at this point I did have a valid cert with a few days still on it)
I did my best to politely explain I'd gifted my dad my guns and he was leaving them in my cabinet for now as he has limited space but I had no access
He said this would reflect badly on my renewal but had nothing specific to complain about beyond this wasn't good enough
I heard nothing more and got no reply to a chaser email
A fortnight later my cert arrived backdated to the expiry date of my old one still with my guns on it
One quick email reversing the gifting went unanswered (as all acquisition/disposal emails do with the met)
What a complete shambles.
As these were shotguns it was easy to play this silly game for their benefit.
Cheers Ben for high lighting it
If more of the police forces had this amount of scrutiny things might improve
If more of the police forces had this amount of scrutiny things might improve
Apart from the fact you are no longer in possession of a valid current firearms certificate.
But in principle yes, I agree with you, and unless put under direct pressure to do otherwise I think I would just carry on as normal.
The Optimist
Well-Known Member
My personal experience of the Beds, Camb, Herts FEOs I have spoken with in the past couple of months regarding two separate variations and a change of home address and storage arrangements has been excellent. The two FEOs clearly had subject matter expertise, were supportive, helpful and offered guidance. My last renewal did take a week or so short of a year which was a bit frustrating. I think the issue may be with an under resourced admin team processing the paperwork? I know only too well that recruiting decent staff for office roles is a real challenge right now and I expect the firearms licensing team faces the same problems. I like to work on the principle that people are doing the best they can.
Overlay
Well-Known Member
just done my co - term renewal 2 week turnaround, 2 phone calls from kent police in that time, all sorted can’t fault them at all 
, I have to be fair in the past waited longer for a variation, they done a really great job to be honest, it took me 7 weeks to get the doctors form completed before I could send it in, the doctor surgeries are mega busy - plan well ahead on the doctors form.
Placing a sect 1 or 2 in with a RFD / gunshop I checked on the availability and the going rate quoted to me was £5 per gun/rifle per week with 2 months up front if you have 10 rifles and 3 shotguns it can work out very costly - get it all in early and avoid any problems
, I have to be fair in the past waited longer for a variation, they done a really great job to be honest, it took me 7 weeks to get the doctors form completed before I could send it in, the doctor surgeries are mega busy - plan well ahead on the doctors form.Placing a sect 1 or 2 in with a RFD / gunshop I checked on the availability and the going rate quoted to me was £5 per gun/rifle per week with 2 months up front if you have 10 rifles and 3 shotguns it can work out very costly - get it all in early and avoid any problems
I wonder if this is one of the forces that has failed to answer if the extra money from the cert cost increases has been ring fenced?
They were a "no response" last I saw
Thread 'BASC update on ringfencing of firearms licensing fees' BASC update on ringfencing of firearms licensing fees
It's ok, I'm sure they answer the phone and don't just fob you off with a voicemail telling you to email...
The erosion of all public services is shocking. I don't necessarily blame the firearms departments as they're victims of their funding. Public schools are basically run on the goodwill of the staff at this point, with a huge percentage projecting deficit.
We need to scrap private contractor usage in the public sector. Bring every contract in house. I bet you'd see huge savings
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