What if your cabinet is in a building that catches fire?
Powder and primers in outbuildings?
- Thread starter Lofty.308
- Start date
This is a bit like your argument that using lead ammunition breaches The Wildlife and Countryside Act.
In other words, daft!
what if your shed with 20ltrs of petrol catches fire ? what if aliens arrive with laser guns?
Part of the process to be 1.4s includes a bonfire test, to confirm mass detonation does not happen if it did they would not be 1.4s, just the same for your ammunition or cartridges.
Frequently read how some store many thousand shotgun cartridges in their house or garage, without a second thought to mass detonation but then they are also 1.4s so again no risk of massive detonation.
However black powder is 1.1d and hence can mass explode hence the wooden boxes used with separate compartments for storage, as per HSE ER2014 (L150 page 100) which by the way applies the same storage conditions to smokeless powder which few look to follow, do you?
Edit to add always store explosive articles in their original packaging, never for example store primers lose in a jar etc.
Can you legally store 20 litres of petrol in your shed?
There is surely a difference between individual primers or rounds being detonated in an open fire to multiple detonating in a confined space that is made of metal. Or does the test involve putting primers in a sealed co Rainer in a fire?
One primer however detonated if stored in the original manufactures packaging will not start a chain reaction.
I am not storing them in a small tin box but a large ammunition cabinet with plenty of space around the primers and lots of ammunition .22lr, .223, .17hmr, .17hornet which we all store in metal cabinets, do we not? they are all 1.4s so why worry about the primers when with your thinking, logic the ammunition is also a 1.4s bomb.
Potentially the metal cabinet and air gap within could hold back the heat from any fire for awhile.
re petrol
How much fuel can you legally store at home? In line with Government and HSE regulations, you can store a maximum of 30 litres of petrol at home or a non-workplace premises. If you store any more than this you must inform your local Petroleum Enforcement Authority (PEA).
My thought process is if they an individual primer can be detonated by heat then if multiple primers are exposed to extreme heat they could all detonate at once, if it’s a lot of primers, say 10,000 or so that I store (in an out building) all go off together in an enclosed metal container and it blows, I wouldn’t want to be a fire fighter stood in the vicinity.
Ammunition is going to behave differently as primers will be further apart and contained within a case.
All mine are stored in plastic containers, in original packaging, and not all together.
Taken from another forum;
CCI Primer Safety Advice -
Never store primers in a tightly closed metal container like a ammo can. To do so is to risk a devastating explosion complete with deadly metal fragments from the can. Such confinement can make the discharge of one or two primers instantaneously progress to a high-order event, involving all primers in the can...Primers are best stored in a vented wooden box or cabinet with a loosely attached door or lid. This allows the pressure to vent in the case of fire or a few primers detonating in the container. Wood acts as insulation to slow the transmission of heat to the primers.
SAAMI Advice -
...Primers are best stored in a vented wooden box or cabinet with a loosely attached door or lid. This allows the pressure to vent in the case of fire or a few primers detonating in the container. Wood acts as insulation to slow the transmission of heat to the primers...DOT-approved containers are constructed to open up at low internal pressures to avoid the effects normally produced by the rupture or bursting of strong containers. Storage enclosures for smokeless powder should be constructed in a similar manner: 1. Of fire-resistant and heat-insulating materials to protect contents from external heat. 2. Sufficiently loose to vent the gaseous products of combustion satisfactorily which would result if the quantity of smokeless powder within the enclosure accidentally ignited.
Safe to say best practice is not to store primers in a metal container, if you choose to fair enough.
As for petrol, fire fighters probably expect it to be stored in outbuildings, not necessarily so for primers in a metal cabinet which will take longer to ignite than the petrol too.
i do not store 10,000 
would be nice, or in a small confined metal container, if the risk from primers was any greater than that of ammunition then they would not be classified as UN0044 1.4s. i,e 1.4s just like ammunition is so the risk is no different to that of storing 10,000 .22lr in a metal cabinet.
The rear of my large ammunition cabinet also has a few holes from previous mountings so is to a degree vented
Do you store your smokeless powder in a wooden box as per hse regulations? i bet very few do
quote “just keep mine on the shelf next to the powder”
it’s all about risk management.
would be nice, or in a small confined metal container, if the risk from primers was any greater than that of ammunition then they would not be classified as UN0044 1.4s. i,e 1.4s just like ammunition is so the risk is no different to that of storing 10,000 .22lr in a metal cabinet.The rear of my large ammunition cabinet also has a few holes from previous mountings so is to a degree vented
Do you store your smokeless powder in a wooden box as per hse regulations? i bet very few do
quote “just keep mine on the shelf next to the powder”
it’s all about risk management.
Again in separate, plastic boxes and different part of the room to the primers.i do not store 10,000
The rear of my large ammunition cabinet also has a few holes from previous mountings so is to a degree vented
Do you store your smokeless powder in a wooden box as per hse regulations? i bet very few do
quote “just keep mine on the shelf next to the powder”
it’s all about risk management.
I do have some 25 mm ply and do intend to make some boxes up, but need to finish renovations on the house first!
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
Care to cite that?
Form ER4A for the GRANT of a COER Explosives Certificate appears deceptively simple, but it has a dual application. For our purpose, we need to both Acquire and Keep black powder, hence the need to complete Parts A, C and D of the document. A downloadable pdf can be found at https:// www.essex.police.uk/contact-us/firearmsapplication/ application-forms/ Note that the 2014 revisions have extended the previous 3 year ‘date to date’ life of the Certificate, to allow coterminous renewal with your FAC and SGC. Since 2012, the Recipient Competent Authority (RCA) document that permits you to TRANSPORT your newly acquired black powder has been supplied with your certificate. The full name for the RCA is the POMSTER, the acronym for Placing On the Market and Supervision of Transfers of Explosives Regulations 1993. You’ll be required to show these documents whenever you make a purchase of black powder for transportation to your storage location, or if you are transporting material for use on the range.
You must give careful consideration to the precise design and location of your storage, mindful of the fact that your black powder must now be stored in a particular type of container/box – sample structural specifications for which can be found on the Interweb at; Reloading.org.uk. powder_storage.htm It is also recommended, but NOT a requirement, that all smokeless propellants are stored in a similar manner
As an aside Clinton at the above website is very helpful reloading supply wise!
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
Have used him more than once.
I think the last package contained ramrods for a musket and my latest toy - .58 cal pistol.
Utter madness.
page 100 ER2014 L150 plain english interpretation of HSE ER2014.
Again comes down to the interpretation of the word “Should” rather than must ? and the HSE do not discriminate between black powder and smokeless powder, but clearly the police are.
Pretty clear destruction between should and must I would say.
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
There is no interpretation.
They are two completely different words, with two completely different meanings.
I really should go into the etymology, including the constituent morphemes and phonemes, but I simply must go and walk the dogs...
HSE use should should. / (ʃʊd) / verb. the past tense of shall : used as an auxiliary verb to indicate that an action is considered by the speaker to be obligatory
So HSE consider it obligatory that shooters powder is stored in a wooded box as per L150 and HSE define shooters powder as including both black powder and smokeless powder.
Have you been taking sneaky pic's of me again @Stalker1962 ??
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