PPU Soft Point - performance on deer
- Thread starter FoxAndDeer
- Start date
I have shot the 308. Just looking at the rounds the quality variation was obvious in the batch I had, some tips had lumps others were fine. When I shot the ones that looked normal they grouped fine. The others I either used as barrel dirtiers or sanded a bit off. Good enough. Never going to be startling but price has a quality all of its own
Tips have very little if any effect within 300m or more I suspect, especially the 'soft point' which can rub off when chambering the round from the magazine onto the feed ramp.
You cannot do this with an ordinary FL resizing die. This is VERY poor advice, and I suspect just a poorly thought through idea of yours. You say "you can" do this. Have you ever ?
On the press upstroke the neck is sized down smaller then required. Then on the downstroke the expander is dragged out, to set the inside neck diameter to give a suitable tension when the bullet is seated. When the outer neck diameter will be increased again, by the neck tension amount.
If you were to then try to run the loaded round back through the resizer with the rod removed, it would be trying to squeeze the neck back down again. Which would be very bad.
One way to attempt this would be to use a bushing die, with the bushing removed. I could see that working, if you really wanted to do this. But you would have to be borderline insane to even contemplate putting a loaded round into a resizing die of any description. What could possibly go wrong ?
These are simply the basic part of a Redding type S bushing die, without any of the other parts. Used by people who normally do neck sizing only, e.g. benchresty types using say L E Wilson neck dies, to periodically reset their fireformed cases once they have become too tight to chamber again, usually because the shoulder position has crept up to zero or negative clearance in their chambers. A specialist tool that costs less than a complete type S die, That's what they are for.
But nowadays the idea of neck sizing only seems unfashionable. Really only the province of bench-resters who often reload at the range using arbour dies.
This could be considered a good thing, provided that the brass DOES comply with CIP dimensions.
CIP (and SAAMI) chamber and case dimensions are mostly (but not always) such that an absolute maximum case will fit in a minimum spec. (tight but still compliant) chamber. With zero clearance at the shoulder. There should be no pressure needed to close the bolt, provided the chamber is clean.
The exceptions are those chamberings where SAAMI managed to get it wrong, creating the "Delta L" problem, whereby a maximum sized case will not quite fit in a minimum spec. chamber. It seems they have a poor review process (it's ever so basic engineering tolerancing), but once SAAMI issue a spec. it's pretty much set in stone.
Unfortunately CIP have to follow SAAMI specs where the original was defined by SAAMI, but at least they flag up on their drawings where they have identified a Delta L problem. A common example being the 243 Winchester, which has a Delta L of 0.1 mm. You should be able to overcome that with a bolt action, but it could hinder a quick followup shot.. Another example, 270 Win, with a Delta L of 0.15mm. We are only talking about 1/1000" ish.
Here is an explanation, and list of the Delta Ls.
Delta L problem - Wikipedia
Where a cartridge is created for CIP standardisation, it is ensured that this problem does not exist. When SAAMI then play catchup and copy and try to re-invent it (why ?) they generally make a dogs-breakfast of it. "Highlighted dimensions have no corresponding CIP analog" etc. This sort of thing:
I have found PPU brass to be quite serviceable for reloading too. I think it could do with better annealing for best longevity, but as virgin brass for a first factory loading ISTM to be quite adequate, and with Henry Krank as the UK importer, usually in plentiful supply.
BTW, I would expect any brass manufacturer, when knowing of a (borderline hypothetical) Delta L mis-match, simply to take that into account and make sure that it will still fit a minimum spec. chamber.
Wrong explanation. Whether it be CIP or SAAMI, a maximum size case will fit a minimum size chamber (Delta L problem excepted).
When rifles are proofed here in CIP countries they are all firstly go-no go gauged to make sure the chamber is within the allowable tolerances. If a chamber was tighter than CIP minimum it would not pass the go gauge.
Apparently some US made rifles can have pretty poorly cut chambers, when discovered during proofing as they all have to be, when imported to the UK. ISTR that pretty much a years' delivery of Remington rifles were rejected a while ago, which created a real shortage.
I have seen .308 rounds re-sized on the firing line using a Lee hand press. There were several witnesses. The rounds were re-loads previously shot in an Accuracy International AW and needed to be used in an American rifle. It worked perfectly.
Accuracy International chambers are in the larger side of spec and shoot superbly.
ppu state on their cases that they should be sized before use . I decided not to after testing a few as it was the 22 hornet that sizes on the rim anyhow . So far i have shot a few hundred and although case capacity is down on what is available in RWS, Sellier ballot and Winchester accuracy is not effected.
Fed up with loosing cases in the grass as it was putting up costs ( price was the motivating factor and i bought a lot of brass in one hit ) . Its been just fine in the Hornet .
So i bought some 243 win brass that i did have to resize to use in the 260 rem , its also been just fine!
Have no first- hand knowledge of the loaded ammo they do though i no longer turn my nose up at Privi Brass. Just size it like it says on the pack, i would rather do this then end up with a tight one at the wrong moment.
I have been testing some ppu FMJ bullets ( heads if you like ) so far i have not got them shooting , though i haven't messed about much with powders , fill and seating depths. This project was just about cheap practice rounds in the 260 and by gosh they are cheap
Fed up with loosing cases in the grass as it was putting up costs ( price was the motivating factor and i bought a lot of brass in one hit ) . Its been just fine in the Hornet .
So i bought some 243 win brass that i did have to resize to use in the 260 rem , its also been just fine!
Have no first- hand knowledge of the loaded ammo they do though i no longer turn my nose up at Privi Brass. Just size it like it says on the pack, i would rather do this then end up with a tight one at the wrong moment.
I have been testing some ppu FMJ bullets ( heads if you like ) so far i have not got them shooting , though i haven't messed about much with powders , fill and seating depths. This project was just about cheap practice rounds in the 260 and by gosh they are cheap
Probably worth mentioning that it might be risky to do this on really old ammo, or stuff that headpaces off a rim/belt, and an adequate amount of lube will of course be needed
Probably worth mentioning that it might be risky to do this on really old ammo, or stuff that headpaces off a rim/belt, and an adequate amount of lube will of course be needed
If I remember correctly the cases were well lubed with chapstick
Donk1
Well-Known Member
Yes you can but he doesn’t reload but he needs too start but he keeps putting it off lol
Not sure you are talking about the same thing. Are you seriously saying that you saw loaded cartridges tailored for a specific rifle then being re-sized to fit into a different rifle into which otherwise they would not chamber ?
I seriously don't see how this could work properly if using a normal FL die, rather than say a bushing die with the internals taken out.
@caberslash said " you can run loaded rounds through a full length sizing die (or better still, a 'small base' one) with the expander/decapping plug removed." This was was in the context of "fixing up" PPU factory rounds which for some reason wouldn't chamber. Having first tested all of them in the rifle (firing pin removed of course, but that's not a trivial operation with some bolts).
It rather seemed a flight of fancy to me, but maybe I was wrong. Seen plenty of other strange things go on at ranges, even a bloke who carried a little mallet to bash his bolt open after every shot. Said he loaded hot, and jammed into the lands so it was normal to have to beat the bolt open every time. 300 WinMag BTW. He was sent home by the RCO, after a stand-up full on rant on his part. RCO behaved impeccably. First, and last, time we saw him.
For good reason. Rifles designed, or at least derived from military applications, do not have absolute minimum spec. chambers. Chances of one of those flying through the testing of the "Artic Warfare" would I suggest have been poor.
Which, as you say, is not a hindrance to accuracy. However I'm pretty sure that in other ways AI do chamber their barrels very precisely. Whereas a loose chambered poorly aligned mass produced budget factory rifle could be quite another matter.
I always FL size any new factory brass before I start using it. It's just the sensible thing to do, that way it is going to be closer, but not identical, to how it will look in my subsequent reloads. Which are always FL sized, with minimum shoulder bump for my rifle. It's hardly a great effort.. Also takes out any neck dings that might have happened during transportation.
AFAIK the only people who offer fully prepped brass for reloading are Nosler. Their pricy Custom version: Worth the extra ?
Fully prepped, ready to load
Case mouths are chamfered and deburred
Nosler Brass is hand-inspected and weight-sorted
Flash holes are deburred and checked for proper alignment
Quality made
Each piece of brass is full length sized and trimmed to proper length
Their bulk brass supplied loose in plastic bags, is stated to require:
Nosler bulk brass is manufactured from the same materials and to the same tolerances as Nosler's prepped, boxed brass, but rather than being prepped, and weight sorted, Nosler Bulk brass is bagged raw in bags to provide you with the best raw materials for creating your perfect load.
I'd say that pretty much describes other bulk brass. Sure you can mostly just use it as-is, same as factory ammo, does but if you are a precision type it is always possible to do better, at the least weight-sorting, particularly for small capacity cases. Except maybe for the premium stuff like Lapua, bought from the same manufacturing batch.
Yep, as someone who started reloading 'to save money' I now know I could have saved myself the bother and at least a few thousand rounds worth of PPU
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Turn them backwards and you have a cheap foxing round!
Relevance is important ! Hornet doesn't size on the shoulder but the rim. Once fired on true bottle necked cases might never need the shoulder pushing back in a tight chamber or it might need a tiny bump . For a long time i have measured the shoulder set back required on cases that matter . Remove the pin and do it by feel of the close then measure the bump required then measure it and record it
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