Problem Leopard - Namibia

Oh, nearly forgot.... Andy,

The reason you might see PeteL and I as a bit of a 'tag team' is that we hunt together fairly regularly although not as regularly as we both would wish, we share the same beliefs in honour and truth and I consider him a very fine sportsman, hunter and a true rifleman.......... and I'm very proud to be able to call him a true friend. :)
 
Sorry Shakari, but it always seems as if everything has to be the Shakari way or if not you are a liar or you are wrong. Maybe everyone else is a liar or is wrong but does it always have to be you who tells them!!! :lol:
As I said before, the little I know about African hunting has been from posts on this forum. A large percentage of that knowledge has probably been gleaned from your posts.
I have never said you need to have permission to express an opinion, it just seems a shame that your opinion is often coupled with shouting someone else down completely.
 
Shakari,
Thank you for your kind remarks. Likewise.
Roo,
I have reread all of your posts several times and given the matter some thought. I have come to the conclusion that what you may have is a problem of perception. Let me elaborate:
Problem Animal Control is, it seems, usually perceived to be about a specific animal causing a problem. Amongst those of us who take an interest in Africa and African Hunting, I believe it is assumed that there is a necessity for the animal causing the problem to be eliminated ASAP. However, for a working man such as myself who may have to save for two to five years for a Safari, such hunts are not possible.

I see from your posts that you have excessive numbers of predators in your areas and they are having a severe impact, not only on Game, but on cattle/sheep operations. The elimination of such predators is usually called Problem Animal Control, but may be better called Predator Control.

So, and this is merely a suggestion, because your areas have large or excessive numbers of predators, do you think it might be better to call it Predator Control and market it as such?. A normally structured Hunt exclusively for Predators may well be of interest to many hunters.

There is a problem, however, which will not go away no matter what it is called or how it is approached. If Predators are so numerous and spread out over such a large area as you have mentioned, then it may not be physically possible to eliminate or control them expeditiously(as is obviously needed) due to the amount of effort and man-hours required and this would be the problem,anyway. Unfortunately, the consequence of this is that dealing with these predators may well take a relatively long time. I know that my suggestion is not much of a solution, particularly for the wildlife and farmers involved.
I would appreciate your comments, if you have any.
AndyL,
I do not feed Trolls
Peter
 
Andy,

The comments below are not meant to blow my own trumpet, they're meant to illustrate a point.......

You say you don't know much about African hunting.......... I guess most people here don't, but I've been involved the African hunting industry one way or another for almost 30 years. I've been a Professional Hunter for almost 20 years, I've hunted 6 African countries, written umpteen articles for hunting mags worldwide over the last 25 years or so, I've co written one (small) book and am currently working what is in effect an extensive online book and information source. I've lost count of the dangerous game, let alone the plains game I've hunted with clients and on my own.

I don't believe that makes me an expert by any means, but I do believe it makes me reasonably well qualified to offer a well informed opinion and when I see an erroneous statement that might result in a forum member getting himself into trouble over here, I feel it's only right to point out the error.......... You need to remember that Africa is a very different world to the one most members here are used to and things are very often not as they first appear, and getting into trouble in Africa isn't anything like getting into trouble in the civilised western world. Here, not only can it cost you a lot of money and a spoiled holiday, it can, in some circumstances, also cost you your life. Therefore it's important to be well informed beforehand.

If you think I take the attitude of it being my way or the highway, I suggest you re-read my posts a bit more carefully. :)
 
PeteL said:
AndyL,
I do not feed Trolls
Peter

Well Peter, In 2 years on this site, that is the first time I have been called a troll. Thank you!

It seemed a shame that someone who was looking to help finance the site with advertising was shot down in flames even though there did not seem absolute substance to your comments.

Shakari, I realise that you are very experienced in African hunting and I was in no way insinuating any different.
 
Andy,

I sincerely don't think Roo was shot down in flames and I don't think there was ever any intention to criticise him at all .......... if he feels otherwise, I think he's mistaken.

The comments were all general observations on the industry as a whole and not aimed at him or his offerings in any way. :???:
 
Closing the subject

Guys, all this animosity and for what? What did any of this achieve and how did any of this help those interested in going hunting in Africa?

I joined this website because a guy that had contacted me directly regarding leopard hunting decided to do a bloke a favour and post my email up on this board. He did that without me knowing and sent me a link to it once he had done it. I joined the board because when I looked at the replys he had received to his post, it seemed that he was being critisised for my message to him - so I joined and tried to put that right, defending Mack and his integrity at the same time as trying to do likewise for mine.

Reading back through the comments and having taken legal advise, here's how my Solicitor and I feel about it. If a respected member of an established bulletin board such as this makes open comments which appear to undermine and cast doubt upon the business endeavours of another, and does so publicly, then on the balance of probability, damage injury or loss will be realised by that individual, and that is what I fear has happened here.

I represent an extended area in a far-off foreign country and do so with transparency and integrity, hell, I even said I'd come over with any hunters from here, but that's by the by, bottom line is that I feel that my business and my personal reputation has been smeared on this forum and it seems that I'm not the only person that feels that way - that 'balance of probability' is an interesting phrase don't you think?

I don't need it, and frankly, I don't think that Namibia needs it, or any of the Southern African countries. Visitors to Africa find out first-hand how different the place is in terms of everything, and yes, life is cheap in many countries. I do think that it is universally recognised that Namibia has some of the finest, unspoilt conservation area's and is more stable and safer than most anywhere else on that continent. Taking firearms to Namibia is really easy and we have fabulous facilities, great game and so on - it's my personal paradise!

What I don't need, and what I feel hunting, and I'll include deer stalking with that, what we don't need is in-fighting amongst ourselves, regardless of any of our personal agendas. If we all start to tear each other apart like this over hunting and deer stalking, then the anti's will have a field day and guess what, deer stalking will be next to be under threat. I don't want that for my business or for my hobby and I doubt that Namibia needs it either - curiously though, I don't get any of this from my Eastern European clients, or from my North American clients either - only here, and that's why IMHO we are destined to loose any kind of hunting in this country within my lifetime - because everyone has an opinion, regardless of how it was developed and we take delight in rubbishing those that don't happen to share our opinions views and experiences.

Guys, I'm a simple bloke that loves to hunt and shoot. That's pretty straight forwards I feel. A member here was kind enough to try and do me a favour by promoting some problem animals for me on this site and was rubbished for it, I joined to back him up and clarify the situation and just look at the thread that has developed here as a result - again, is this showing me or my business in a positive light? No.

Finally, and I wanted to get this off my chest beforehand, I wanted to reply to the comment from PeteL about Hyaena's charging when he asked "I've never heard of Hyena charging on being shot, have you?."

Let me just finish on this as I feel that enough of the brown stuff has been thrown in our direction. Charging animals - well, what makes an animal charge then? Wounding it will do it in the case of Lion and Buffalo but that's not what anyone here would deliberately set out to do is it? Maybe surprising an unsuspecting animal would elicit the same response too, or getting between a mother and it's young, but what kind of PH would allow a hunter to do this? Leopard is a different thing again, always in a bad mood and very agressive, and elephant, well, you wouldn't believe how fast they are in real life, but how many of us can afford £12000 to shoot an elephant? Not that many I'd wager and again, any decent PH would look to protect their guests from such an occourance by making sure they are not exposed to the potential in the first place.

So, while we've all read the books on the 'good old days' of Ivory Hunting and so on, do any of us really want to go into the unknown with a PH that would knowingly or otherwise expose us to this kind of very real danger and furthermore, does anyone honestly go out hunting with the intention of deliberately wounding something in order to experience a charge?

Seems I'm in the wrong place guys, because if this is what you are looking for from a Hunting Outfitter or Hunting Agent - I'm sorry, but we can't help - this isn't something we offer, endorse or approve of.

However, if you fancy a chat about what it's really like, or just want to pick the brains of someone that's been there and done it, that's fine and I'll be delighted to hear from you. I travel around a fair bit too, so if you'd like that conversation over a beer / coffee, that's good too, and I'll be at the CLA fair at Blenheim tomorrow if that helps. I'm not a bad bloke, fairly approachable and will be glad to meet you, so if you see me, feel free to come and say Hi, I'd really like that. In addition, we have a website - it's here The Hunting Agency and it's got photos and tips on what to expect and how to prepare yourself, feel free to take a look, and if you have any questions, just shout!

That's all I have to say here, sorry to have ruffled some feathers and thank you to those of you that have sent me PM's too, it's much appreciated!
 
In addition, we have a website - it's here The Hunting Agency and it's got photos and tips on what to expect and how to prepare yourself, feel free to take a look, and if you have any questions, just shout!

Ooo! Wicked scope eye! and that leopard looks cuddly.

I'd love to do some shooting in Africa, but I'm s**t scared of the snakes! I have a picture of me in Tunisia with a snake charmer holding a long thin black snake round my neck when I was 5 - I think it stems from that! My mam said it was a black mamba, but black mambas are not black - only the insides of their mouths - is that right?
 
That's right, black mouths but I've only seem black mamba at night and then I've been happily inside a pick-up. Here's something you don't see everyday - a puff adder that had a really bad day - not only was it eaten by a cobra, the cobra was then run over making doubly sure that it was dead!
cobrapuff.jpg

Here's a chameleon caught in two minds as he crossed in front of us - the labourers were so frightened of it you wouldn't believe - until you see it bite someone - damn!
chameleon.jpg
and last September I spotted this little chap crossing ahead of me - how cool is that!
tortose.jpg


Tell you what - you don't see anywhere near as many as you'd think, unless you go for something jungly, but most of Namibia is dry with mountains thrown in for good measure, and in their winter (our summer) the snakes do sunbathe more openly on the roads, but it's under rocks and downed trees that you should be careful - came across a Damara Tiger Snake in June, hiding in a pile of rocks - we had piled them there for a building project to be collectd later - we found it a couple of days later, only tiny but not something you want to find in your sock!

So, if you go looking for them, sure, you won't be disappointed, but that's if you go looking or do something daft - as I caught myself doing earlier in the year. I'd found a shed cobra skin intact in an old warthog burrow while moving cattle, and a short while later I thought that I should have grabbed it as a curiosity, so on my way back I went looking for it. Then I thought to myself, what if it's previous owner is still in the neighbourhood - what then - thank god for common sense, but some people would keep looking....

Leopards, yeah, well I've been lucky, or unlucky to be in the right place with no client available at short notice, and these really are regular things that come up and the farmers are glad to see the back of them - in return, I'm similarly grateful to have the chance to help them back by hunting and promoting Hyaena and Jackal hunting, they throw baboon's in too free of charge if you go for a couple of weeks! These really are a problem and I try and do as much as I can to promote it - I find it very stimulating and challenging plus the mystique that the black fella's have for them, probably the wrong word, but it's just different, besides, how many people can afford a trip in the region of £4K and two weeks away at short notice in search of leopard? Not many, but there's plenty of people that fancy a go at something a bit dangerous, and these certainly are that, but it's affordable. OK, so I'm wrong to presume everyone has got the £££ for this, but it's a lot of spport for not much £££ and with the availabilty of fabulous game trophies around everywhere too which you can shoot if you want to, and that's something you'll have to talk yourself into or out of, we'll just show you what's there!
 
That photo makes me shudder, I'm freaked out enough by adders, I doubt you'd get me off the aeroplane.

When my friends laugh at me about it I ask them whether they've ever had a pit viper or whatever it was wrapped around their neck.
 
africa

Quote
'I don't get any of this from my Eastern European clients, or from my North American clients either - only here, and that's why IMHO we are destined to loose any kind of hunting in this country within my lifetime - because everyone has an opinion, regardless of how it was developed and we take delight in rubbishing those that don't happen to share our opinions views and experiences'.

Hi
I think he's gota bloody good point here! I believe this site was set up to provide camerarderie between hunters. I have experienced this camerarderie in USA and Europe but rarely in UK. Perhaps our hunting tradition is rooted too much in 'toffs and surfs'. We must be comfortable airing our opinions but with respect and trust not suspicion and malice.
Waidmannsheil
Mack
 
This is quite an interesting thread - I saw the Louis Theroux programme a while back (no doubt it was discussed on the forum, but it was before my time here) and it opened my eyes. I knew Elephants were becoming a problem, but I'd always thought things like big cats were under threat - but I was proven wrong.

Interesting that the same people who have a problem with breeding big cats so there is a surplus to be shot for sport, will eat pheasant with no complaints.

Different worlds.
 
Ok you lot this is where I step in!!!

Whilst I have no issue with what anyone has said in this thread, it would appear that a little bit of mud slinging is going on.

There is no doubt that Namibia offers good value for money as a Safari destination, the rules are very strict in Namibia, and Ph's I think go through a very rigorous check and training, as they do in just about all African countries. Providing the Cites permits are in order then there is not an issue ( I was some 8 years back a Vol Wildlife Inspector for the then DOE under the Wildlife & Countryside act) but I also did some work for HMCE before joining this, so i know something about CITIES.

Tanzania is very very expensive, too much for me now. I guess the daily rate is about $2000 to $2500 a day, but I have never hunted there, but it was always top end. The greater majority of folk cannot afford it, and so SA is the common place to take a Kudu, which is a cart load cheaper than Tanzania.

Everyone has their choice, and I am sure that if The Hunting Agency are offering these hunts they will endevour to assure that people get what they pay for.

Lets face it if they fowl up, it will be common knowledge on this site and many others if any members are unhappy. And although we welcome open discussion and shared knowledge lets not knock anyone to the ground straight away, unless someone has had a bad experience. And I do not hear anything at present, do you?
 
Back
Top