Problem with "new" 17 Hornet

toxo

Member
Have recently bought a CZ 17 hornet but I think it's a wrong un and will have to go back. Thought I was getting a good deal but hasn't worked out that way. Was told the gun was new 2016. turns out to be 2014 and has a slight split in the forend. I bought a second hand Hardy Gen V with it and it might as well not be on there the thing is so loud. The moderator will have to go back but the price on the rifle was so good I was thinking of keeping it, however, I'm just finishing my reloading station (1st time reloader) and had a close look at the first 25 cases of Hornady 20gr Vmax after they've been through the rifle and they all have a ring about 5 1/16ths from the rim. When I put them them through the die there was extra pressure needed to get past those rings and there seems to be some scraping after that point. This is not normal is it?
 

Muir

Well-Known Member
An expansion ring is normal. Probably normal to have increased pressure because there is virtually NO pressure on the case until it reached the end of the ram stroke. It's hard to say from this side of the computer screen. The rifle may well have been made in 2014 and sold in 2016. Our local trading post has had a CZ 17H for three years now. Did you get a chance to examine the rifle before you bought it? If it was a smoking good deal, make it your own and give up the buyer's remorse.~Muir
 

old keeper

Well-Known Member
I don't think the age matters much. Not sure about the "split" in the forend though! The trouble is that if you are not 100% happy with your new rifle now my experience is that it's likely you never will be.
 

toxo

Member
An expansion ring is normal. Probably normal to have increased pressure because there is virtually NO pressure on the case until it reached the end of the ram stroke. It's hard to say from this side of the computer screen. The rifle may well have been made in 2014 and sold in 2016. Our local trading post has had a CZ 17H for three years now. Did you get a chance to examine the rifle before you bought it? If it was a smoking good deal, make it your own and give up the buyer's remorse.~Muir
I like your philosophy Muir and I don't think i'm being paranoid but I'm retired and just can't afford to make a mistake. Bought it from an ad and a conversation with a salesman who assured me there was nothing wrong with it.

17 Hornet screen shot2.jpg
The right side of the forend;

17 hornet 14th April 2017 019.JPG

Left side of the forend. There's the start of a split there plus what looks like an anomaly in the figuration of the wood which makes me worry about that whole piece coming adrift especially if it's been dropped. (perhaps I am paranoid after all).

17 hornet 14th April 2017 031.JPG

Date stamp;

17 hornet 14th April 2017 053.JPG

Pressure rings. I don't have a digital vernier yet but my ordinary vernier tells me that it does seem to be a ring rather than all the way down.

17 hornet 14th April 2017 042.JPG
 

8x57

Distinguished Member
I can't see how the stock should have been split/ damaged in that area unless someone has tried forcing something down the barrel channel. You say you have only recently purchased the rifle and presumably you aren't responsible for the damage, so take the rifle back to the dealer that you purchased it from. I would guess that they will return it to Edgar Brothers who almost certainly will replace the stock. The damaged stock is very unlikely to have any effect on the accuracy of the rifle so it should be quite acceptable to continue using the rifle until the replacement stock arrives.

The photograph of the cases is not particularly clear but I can't see any problem with them. The rings on the cases would be normal for full length resized cases. I take it that you did lube the outside of the cases correctly and also used lube inside the necks.
 
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toxo

Member
I can't see how the stock should have been split/ damaged in that area unless someone has tried forcing something down the barrel channel. You say you have only recently purchased the rifle and presumably you aren't responsible for the damage, so take the rifle back to the dealer that you purchased it from. I would guess that they will return it to Edgar Brothers who almost certainly will replace the stock. The damaged stock is very unlikely to have any effect on the accuracy of the rifle so it should be quite acceptable to continue using the rifle until the replacement stock arrives.

The photograph of the cases is not particularly clear but I can't see any problem with them. The rings on the cases would be normal for full length resized cases. I take it that you did lube the outside of the cases correctly and also used lube inside the necks.

A new stock will be quite acceptable despite the gun being two years older than stated in the ad. The brass has not been sized. This is how it came from once fired.
 

xavierdoc

Well-Known Member
The stock issue is your choice: return it or put-up. I'd assume Edgar Bros would replace it but you'd have to go via the dealer, of course.

How does it shoot? If accuracy is poor, check the forend is free-floating (including under load.) My CZ 527 Varmint has the laminate thumb hole stock. It shoots very well but when I first got it the barrel was not well-centred in the channel and touched under load. I found a loose fragment of bedding compound blocking the proper seating of the recoil lug. Once removed it was fine.

The moderator has failed to meet your expectations: it could be faulty or your expectations may be too high. No mod can eliminate the supersonic crack of the bullet, of course, and no one in their right mind is going to download a 17Hornet to subsonic!

The cases look normal (within the limitations of the photo). You say you are a first time reloader- the 17Hornet is a little more fiddly than bigger cases and charge-weight more critical (a 0.2gr error is a small percentage of a 46gr .308 charge but much more significant with 9.6gr of Lil Gun in the small case.)

It would be worth checking how much your resizing is bumping the shoulders back. Simply adjusting the die as per the instructions it comes with can lead to problems with headspace.

Some of my early Hornady brass had shallow primer pockets, preventing proper seating. I screened out the shallow-pocket brass by measuring depth but I'm away from my bench at the mo and can't remember the cutoff. Apparently Fiocchi primers fit but I'm not going to mess around with this.

If you use Hodgdon's online guide for min/max Lil Gun loads for 20grVmax, bear in mind that many people (myself included) found their start load over pressure despite same OAL and primer.

It's a great little calibre, I hope you get things resolved to your satisfaction.
 
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8x57

Distinguished Member
A new stock will be quite acceptable despite the gun being two years older than stated in the ad. The brass has not been sized. This is how it came from once fired.
The date that it was actually manufactured doesn't matter its still a new rifle. Most new guns are hanging around for some time in the distributors or dealers.

So they're once fired cases, I still can't see a lot wrong with them, certainly nothing that would cause me concern as yet.
 

Barkingsnake

Well-Known Member
Pressure rings. I don't have a digital vernier yet but my ordinary vernier tells me that it does seem to be a ring rather than all the way down.

View attachment 82140
Cases look fine, just like my 17 Hornet in fact. I form my cases from PPU 22 Hornet which seems to be a nicer brass than the Hornady.
The 20 and 25grain VMAX are good bullets in the round as are the 20grain Berger and the Nosler 20grain Varmageddon.
 

toxo

Member
The date that it was actually manufactured doesn't matter its still a new rifle. Most new guns are hanging around for some time in the distributors or dealers.

So they're once fired cases, I still can't see a lot wrong with them, certainly nothing that would cause me concern as yet.
So there's not a problem with the cases. Good to know. As for the date, I'll agree there's nothing wrong with being a couple of years older except if you look at the date on the ad it clearly states 2016 and as long as there's been no significant updates since 2014.

I ran out of time to check accuracy properly the one chance I had but I'll make a decision once I've done that. If it proves to be accurate I may even keep it as is. The mod and the chamber were my main concerns.

xavierdoc; Thanks for that. I do have lilgun and the Hodgedon data. I have read about the start point and will be careful. Can't do anything until I get the shellholder for the hand primer. I'm torn between being patient and finding some other way to get em in there. :) Strangely enough the only primers I could find were Fiocchi.

Thanks for the advice guys. I do appreciate it.
 

toxo

Member
Cases look fine, just like my 17 Hornet in fact. I form my cases from PPU 22 Hornet which seems to be a nicer brass than the Hornady.
The 20 and 25grain VMAX are good bullets in the round as are the 20grain Berger and the Nosler 20grain Varmageddon.
I'm quickly finding out that it's not always what you want but what you can get hold of. I have a couple of hundred 20gr Vmax to play around with. I will try the others as I find them. What's needed to form from 22 hornet brass? I read about it but haven't seen the makings.
It took me along time to finally decide on the 17 hornet. I think it will do everything I need in my shooting world. Hope I can get it sorted.
 

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