Real world 17 HMR results

[Frank Alc]

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I always carry a rangefinder and ping several spots around my shooting position.
But I usually look the area up in google or other DTM maps beforehand to find the best shooting post. And once back at home I often check the map on the computer screen and locate hits and misses.
It is part of the fun, like rehearsing the action.

 

[TringSaint]

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I always carry a rangefinder and ping several spots around my shooting position.
But I usually look the area up in google or other DTM maps beforehand to find the best shooting post. And once back at home I often check the map on the computer screen and locate hits and misses.
It is part of the fun, like rehearsing the action.

I don’t have one.
I know my land pretty well so, case example excluded, I know how far deer are away from me.
I quite like the low tech approach - no thermal spotter, no rangefinder no NV (yet).

 

[hairlesshunter]

I have had cz 455 hmr for about 7+ years now maybe longer and don’t use it as much as I should . And that’s only because I have dedicated fox rifles .
And to be honest I can’t remember having a runner when I have used it they seem to just drop on the spot .
And for rabbits as long as I do my bit 200y isn’t a problem for the 17 hmr
Please excuse the bad language

 

[Frank Alc]

I also like the low tech hunting approach as you say. But I am referring to rabbits here. They are a pest in my land and I try to wipe them out as efficiently as possible. I do not think I will succeed though.

As for 200 yards shots on rabbits I am not taking them any more. Too many misses. Probably it is me, or a combination of my lack of marksmanship and a not very accurate cz 455 . My groups from the bench at 100m are not always 1moa or less (3cm). Eventually 4 holes group in less but the fifth is a flier opening the group to 1.5 moa.
I have to live with it.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

I also like the low tech hunting approach as you say. But I am referring to rabbits here. They are a pest in my land and I try to wipe them out as efficiently as possible. I do not think I will succeed though.

As for 200 yards shots on rabbits I am not taking them any more. Too many misses. Probably it is me, or a combination of my lack of marksmanship and a not very accurate cz 455 . My groups from the bench at 100m are not always 1moa or less (3cm). Eventually 4 holes group in less but the fifth is a flier opening the group to 1.5 moa.
I have to live with it.

You may well be hitting them- but not killing them- at 200 yards.

By 200 yards- the bullet is no longer explosive. It just becomes a very fast bullet which zips right through with not much damage.

You need a very well placed .177 airgun pellet to kill right ? Brain only ? Anywhere else and quarry will run ?

Your 17 hmr bullet at 200 behaves in a v similar way to that pellet.....

 

[jthyttin]

There is always some variation from one rifle to the next. Any slight variation in the plane of the scope to bore relationship can make a substantial difference.

Yes it does, or let's not say slight but something like one inch in scope height will significantly affect the trajectory. On closish range like 100y/m.

At 200m, 17 HMR is on the last legs of it's trajectory. The effect won't be so dramatic, percentage wise (or compared to actual shot dispersion in field conditions). Just ran the numbers so that I'm not talking bollocks. Taking factory figures, 17gr V-Max zeroed at 100m will drop 28 centimeters at 200m if scope height is 4.5cm. And 25cm with scope height of 7.5cm (think AR type rifle where buttstock is in line with barrel).

 

[Smellydog]

or let's not say slight

Yes I will say slightly!
I also said " plane". I was not refering to scope height.

Every one assumes a scopes bore is perfectly parallel to the rifles bore. That is an ideal but not necessarily a given!

I agree though that at those distances it's getting curly. Also at those distances one is entering the realms of air rifle performance if you do connect!

 

[jthyttin]

Every one assumes a scopes bore is perfectly parallel to the rifles bore. That is an ideal but not necessarily a given!

When you zero a modern scope, you move the "plane of the internals" to coincide the "plane of the bore" at some place(s). Not the zero distance, since bullet is affected by gravity and doesn't follow the plane of the bore.

So if you get zeroed, it doesn't matter what the plane of the outer scope (tube etc.) is pointing at. Of course if you go to extremes, and maybe not the highest quality scope, there might be issues like internals not keeping in the place they were adjusted to (internal mechanism not up to the job).

 

[Smellydog]

When you zero a modern scope, you move the "plane of the internals" to coincide the "plane of the bore" at some place(s). Not the zero distance, since bullet is affected by gravity and doesn't follow the plane of the bore.

So if you get zeroed, it doesn't matter what the plane of the outer scope (tube etc.) is pointing at. Of course if you go to extremes, and maybe not the highest quality scope, there might be issues like internals not keeping in the place they were adjusted to (internal mechanism not up to the job).

No sir. You can influence the first and second crossing point of a bullet to the line of sight via the scope mount.
That is why you can obtain various moa mounts.

 

[Frank Alc]

You may well be hitting them- but not killing them- at 200 yards.

By 200 yards- the bullet is no longer explosive. It just becomes a very fast bullet which zips right through with not much damage.

Indeed it is so. I have had that many times. Nevertheless in the majority of cases rabbits die quickly. I would say even faster than when hit at closer ranges.
I have no explanation for it save perhaps that shorter range explosive bullet hits do not penetrate that deep ?

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Indeed it is so. I have had that many times. Nevertheless in the majority of cases rabbits die quickly. I would say even faster than when hit at closer ranges.
I have no explanation for it save perhaps that shorter range explosive bullet hits do not penetrate that deep ?

Hmmm where are you hitting them?

If it's in the brain or vitals- it will work- just as an air rifle pellet will work.

My suspicion is it's a pretty heavy v small bullet and it would likely zip right through.

 

[jthyttin]

No sir. You can influence the first and second crossing point of a bullet to the line of sight via the scope mount.
That is why you can obtain various moa mounts.

I think we're talking about different things and/or not understanding what the other one is saying.

It doesn't matter how many MOA you have in the rail or the mount, if you get the rifle zeroed the "plane of scope internals" coincide with the bullet path and almost coincide with "plane of bore". The inclined rails and mounts are a tool where you can affect what part of scope's internal adjustments are usable for you.

In perfect example, you put the scope on the rifle and adjust it to dead center. Take a shot at 100, and the bullet is few centimeters below the POA. So you effectively have only <50% of adjustment range in use. Throw in inclined rail and/or mount, and you might get 80% of adjustment range. Here again, if you go to extremes you might not be able to zero at 100, since the "plane of scope body" is so deeply facing downwards (excuse my lack of better term) that internal adjustment range doesn't allow the "plane of scope internals" level enough that POA and POI would coincide at 100.

 

[Smellydog]

I think we're talking about different things and/or not understanding what the other one is saying.

It doesn't matter how many MOA you have in the rail or the mount, if you get the rifle zeroed the "plane of scope internals" coincide with the bullet path and almost coincide with "plane of bore". The inclined rails and mounts are a tool where you can affect what part of scope's internal adjustments are usable for you.

In perfect example, you put the scope on the rifle and adjust it to dead center. Take a shot at 100, and the bullet is few centimeters below the POA. So you effectively have only <50% of adjustment range in use. Throw in inclined rail and/or mount, and you might get 80% of adjustment range. Here again, if you go to extremes you might not be able to zero at 100, since the "plane of scope body" is so deeply facing downwards (excuse my lack of better term) that internal adjustment range doesn't allow the "plane of scope internals" level enough that POA and POI would coincide at 100.

I'm not misunderstanding anything buddy.
You are though but it doesn't matter. After all I'm a mere youngster at this stuff.
Have a goodn...

 

[Frank Alc]

Hmmm where are you hitting them?

If it's in the brain or vitals- it will work- just as an air rifle pellet will work.

My suspicion is it's a pretty heavy v small bullet and it would likely zip right through.

At those distances I aim for centre of mass shots. If I score a hit it usually is in the "boiler room" hence affecting lungs/heart. A .172 bullet passing through the vitals of such a small critter must be deadly I guess.

 

[Smellydog]

At those distances I aim for centre of mass shots. If I score a hit it usually is in the "boiler room" hence affecting lungs/heart. A .172 bullet passing through the vitals of such a small critter must be deadly I guess.

I'm the same. Heart and lungs every time.