Remote Hill Stalking

[stubear]

Theres an app you can download onto your phone called what3words which has divided up the entire world into 3m x 3m squares, each with their own three word reference.

It works with the location services on your phone but also works without signal (useful for remote areas) and by giving the three word location that you are at anyone can locate you to within 3m.

EG: the main gate at Buckingham Palace is "tolls.wiring.weds". You can try it out on the website below.

Its being used by the emergency services in the UK and is also very useful if a number of you are on a bit of ground at the same time, it makes it easy to communicate exactly where you are if you need to call for assistance whether thats "Help I've broken my ankle" or "this deer I shot has just cleared off into thick sitka, can you give me a hand searching for it?".

Heres a bit more information on it.

what3words

Every 3 metre square has a unique 3 word address.

what3words.com

 

[Chasey]

All good stuff but be warned the physical effort of carrying kit on the hill is not to be underestimated. Also all the time your stalking your reely warm but after the gralloch you get reely cold so its all about how much you can carry and doing it in such a way as to not overheat but having stuff to put on if your stationary.

Its tough to figure out and I have minimal experience so all my mistakes are recent.

First time I went out I had just about everything including GPS mapping Sat Map device and a PLB (Personal location beacon) and decent warm water resistant clothing. By day two I was stripped to the minimum essentials even down to binning the mod on the rifle to save a tiny bit of weight. Last October after the cold of the dawn stalk, we were in long sleeved T shirts and the Pro hunters jackets were back in the car.

The ground is around 10K acres but having done it about 10 times now, I am pretty confident of navigating out from just about anywhere. Thats the big advantage with mainly open hill over forest.

Now in my back pac I carry:

PLB, Licenced Radio, mobile phone, small first aid kit, head torch + spare batteries, small powerful back up torch, waterproof poncho, flask of hot soup, a strip of Co Codamol pain killers, storm proof lighter and fire starter bock, cable ties (plenty of trees about)

Where I stalk theres water everywhere so emergency water is not a problem

Stalking wise its rifle 5 rounds (never shoot more than one in my case) two knives, lens wipe, and a drag bar and strap.

My poncho is brown which is less than ideal I want a bright orange one. A for rescue and B for extraction.

We put the shooting sticks up and drape the poncho over them secured with cable ties and this is used to mark the deer for extraction by 6 X wheeled quad

As above. Plenty of areas where no shot is determined by difficulty with extraction.

I cant emphasise enough the issue of Extraction. Drag sleads etc are all well and good but IMHO only for getting the animal to a point the quad can reach.

If I were shooting regularly on land the land rover cant access, Id defo have a 1000cc six wheeled quad or an Argo.

 

[polranny]

Best thread I’ve read for a long time. I doubt I’ll ever get the opportunity to put all of this into practice but very interesting nevertheless.

Thank you all.

 

[Mossypaw]

Just to throw in a curveball, and something bad happens when you are alone, what do you do with your rifle ?
A mate suffered a ‘mild’ heart attack a couple of years ago while out alone, he was about 11 miles from help and had to make his own way down. That 8 or 9lb rifle begins to feel like 80 or 90 lb and he had to make a decision, ditch everything or possibly not make it back !
I won’t say what he did, but he made it to the waiting ambulance and all was well, however, if you have to make a 999 call don’t tell them there’s a firearm involved, it does lead to a lot of questions from the HSE and your next renewal is a bit awkward.

 

[Leadwasp]

I really want to caution people about an over reliance on electronics. Outside of the obvious battery issues the more complex you make the message chain the greater the opportunity for delay or error. Inreach for example has it's problems as a bit of Googling will soon reveal.
This is an interesting document about a EPIRB activation and chain of events. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/597867e5e5274a402b000004/MAIBInvReport17_2017.pdf. Yes it is maritime but this gives you a good idea as to how the system works in practice (Section 1.10.2 onwards). EPIRBS/PLB's are exceptional bits of kit BUT you must take into account what they have largly been developed for. Depending on the type of satellite receiving your burst, and the method of fix, appreciable delay can follow.

COSPAS SARSAT's own documents make interesting reading especially about locations with activation clusters. GEOSAR Satellite Coverage - International COSPAS-SARSAT. What you can't discern is whether those clusters just show uptake or real risk. Look at activations in central Europe on the map - hardly the Rockies! https://cospas-sarsat.int/images/stories/SystemDocs/Current/SD43-DEC17--EN--final.pdf

Unfortunately what we are discussing here is the age old problem of the lone worker. If you are unconscious then no PLB is going to help you. If you are criticially injured then you have minutes not hours. Exposure onset is a bit slower but nontheless quite rapid, especially in our wet climate (including the typically wet snow we get). If you are in a gully, canyon (including tree 'canyons' = rides) or thick forest and can't see sky then there is a chance that the terrain or water in foliage will cause problems with any transmission (and reception, including/especially GPS) - although EPIRB burst are relatively strong. Also if your PLB or first aid kit are in your pack, and you're at the bottom of a gully they are of no use to you.

All I'm saying is to truly understand what you are carrying. It is an adjunct to the other more basic safety systems you have put in place. I would argue that whatever your comms method, outside of your own kit, your best bet is an arranged reporting time with a staged overdue procedure for a known area of operation. If you deviate from your route then leave a clear trail blaze (for which you have forwarned your contact and which you later GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to recover) or an acknowledged message.

Lastly - (cheekily) can I ask what the fascination with ponchos is?

 

[James0586]

Ponchos: multi use piece of equipment. Wet weather gear, make a shelter a sledge and a stretcher. Handy bit of kit if you have a good un. Mines ex military and it’s tougher and stiffer than the newer stuff but a handy multi use item to be in your kit bag

 

[bogtrotter]

I really want to caution people about an over reliance on electronics. Outside of the obvious battery issues the more complex you make the message chain the greater the opportunity for delay or error. Inreach for example has it's problems as a bit of Googling will soon reveal.
This is an interesting document about a EPIRB activation and chain of events. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/597867e5e5274a402b000004/MAIBInvReport17_2017.pdf. Yes it is maritime but this gives you a good idea as to how the system works in practice (Section 1.10.2 onwards). EPIRBS/PLB's are exceptional bits of kit BUT you must take into account what they have largly been developed for. Depending on the type of satellite receiving your burst, and the method of fix, appreciable delay can follow.

COSPAS SARSAT's own documents make interesting reading especially about locations with activation clusters. GEOSAR Satellite Coverage - International COSPAS-SARSAT. What you can't discern is whether those clusters just show uptake or real risk. Look at activations in central Europe on the map - hardly the Rockies! https://cospas-sarsat.int/images/stories/SystemDocs/Current/SD43-DEC17--EN--final.pdf

Unfortunately what we are discussing here is the age old problem of the lone worker. If you are unconscious then no PLB is going to help you. If you are criticially injured then you have minutes not hours. Exposure onset is a bit slower but nontheless quite rapid, especially in our wet climate (including the typically wet snow we get). If you are in a gully, canyon (including tree 'canyons' = rides) or thick forest and can't see sky then there is a chance that the terrain or water in foliage will cause problems with any transmission (and reception, including/especially GPS) - although EPIRB burst are relatively strong. Also if your PLB or first aid kit are in your pack, and you're at the bottom of a gully they are of no use to you.

All I'm saying is to truly understand what you are carrying. It is an adjunct to the other more basic safety systems you have put in place. I would argue that whatever your comms method, outside of your own kit, your best bet is an arranged reporting time with a staged overdue procedure for a known area of operation. If you deviate from your route then leave a clear trail blaze (for which you have forwarned your contact and which you later GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to recover) or an acknowledged message.

Lastly - (cheekily) can I ask what the fascination with ponchos is?

Good post.

 

[alberta boy]

Great thread . Really good advise above . Ive been hunting remote areas for a lot of years , from the posts here , you'd all do well . As Chasey points out , weight is your enemy , you will feel every ounce . One practice we follow , that may or may not be applicable to your situation , is caching . In a few areas I hunt we maintain a few caches of food and other essentials in known locations , some have been used for many years by anyone who's in the area . Another is electronic devises , use them , but have a solid plan B , a good detailed map of the area , knowledge of it and a good compass . It sounds like you know how to use one . Extraction is always work , there are areas where I won't shoot game because of inaccessibility . I've packed a Moose out on my back ( deboned ) more times than I care to remember , not fun . I'm not to sure about harnesses , I don't like the idea of being tied to that much weight in rough terrain . But , I can't really say as I've never used one , with common sense , I'm sure they'd be quite useful .
Sounds like you're starting out on quite the adventure , keep us updated on how you do and more importantly , what gear you finally settle on and how it performs .

AB

 

[CarlW]

Great thread . Really good advise above . Ive been hunting remote areas for a lot of years , from the posts here , you'd all do well . As Chasey points out , weight is your enemy , you will feel every ounce . One practice we follow , that may or may not be applicable to your situation , is caching . In a few areas I hunt we maintain a few caches of food and other essentials in known locations , some have been used for many years by anyone who's in the area . Another is electronic devises , use them , but have a solid plan B , a good detailed map of the area , knowledge of it and a good compass . It sounds like you know how to use one . Extraction is always work , there are areas where I won't shoot game because of inaccessibility . I've packed a Moose out on my back ( deboned ) more times than I care to remember , not fun . I'm not to sure about harnesses , I don't like the idea of being tied to that much weight in rough terrain . But , I can't really say as I've never used one , with common sense , I'm sure they'd be quite useful .
Sounds like you're starting out on quite the adventure , keep us updated on how you do and more importantly , what gear you finally settle on and how it performs .

AB

I like the caching idea.
Kind regards,
Carl

 

[CarlW]

One additional thing from me is the importance of knowing and preparing the places (and the relevant grid references and/or lat/long) where an aircraft (plane or heli) can extract you.

I was very badly injured in a fall in Mozambique two years ago. I was knocked unconscious, broke most of my ribs, and did a lot of damage to my spine. It subsequently took me 12 months to recover properly.

We are 80KM from a tar road. From there, it is over 200KM to a 'clinic', where the beds are covered in faeces and the other guests are dying of either cholera or typhoid. That was where I ended up.

However, it needn't have been that way. I could have been in a nice hospital in Harare or Jo'burg instead. Except for one thing...we had neglected to mow our airstrip that season. We had been arguing over whose turn it was to do it...so no-one did it.

No medevac by aircraft...just 280KM (much of it off-road) in the back of a Hilux with a smashed up body and a broken head.

We happily mow that airstrip without fail nowadays...

Kind regards,

Carl

 

[kenbro]

Windup torch .You have to watch the gear as there comes a point when your stay revolves around something other than basic enjoyment .Living a little on the edge is really living mate .Safety first of course but don’t rely on anything that requires a third party .
Despite your concerns there aren’t many places in these isles you are truly alone .

As someone who likes taking calculated risks (That often aren’t too well calculated) I say, +1.
Ken.

 

[kenbro]

An

I like the caching idea.
Kind regards,
Carl

With my luck there’d only be a note there reminding someone to replenish.
Ken.

 

[bogtrotter]

Both weight and bulk are what you have to consider, so use a bit of common sense even though we hunt
in remote areas most of us will use some sort of vehicle to get to the rough vicinity,be that a 4x4 or an Argo or similar.
Even though the ground amounted to a little in excess of 32,000 acres and the miles covered in a days stalking could be quite high the average being about eight if I remember correctly it was seldom.that you would be more than a couple of miles from one of the vehicles be that the 4x4 or the Argo.
So common sense suggests a great deal of stuff could be left in the vehicles,especially if you are hunting in a group a little more thought is needed if hunting alone.
Thinks that can be left in vehicle a comprehensive first aid kit ,food ,thermos etc what to leave and what to take will be dictated by the size of the party and the weather conditions.
What to take always travelled as light as possible many stalkers weigh themselves down with more stuff than they will ever need.
The essentials rifle and ammo of course bino's and a knife I would add a walking stick not shooting sticks, shooting sticks are more or less redundant on the hill 99.9% of shots on the hill will be prone the other .1% might be leaning on a rock but you certainly won't need shooting sticks a walking stick on the other hand is an aid its like an extra leg on the hill a steady for your spotting scope and a handle for your dragging rope.
Rope a short length of rope to be used for extraction as explained in previous post.
Knife many carry a second knife I usually have spares in the vehicle but tend just carry one on the hill if I 'm going to lose one and I have a few times its usually during or after the gralloch not before so not that important and if you are caught out you can do a gralloch wiith a spent case hammer the mouth closed with a rock and its plenty sharp enough
a bit short for bleeding just bleed through the diaphragm job done.
Bino's while I like my telescope especially at stag time I tend to use it to spy from the vehicle and the .leave it there hopefully I have found my intended beast by then and the bino's will suffice for the actual stalk the telescope just being additional weight to carry the same goes for range finders do you really need one to judge 200 yards practice with it before you go stalking so that you can judge shootable distance one less thing to weigh you down.
Mobile phone just remember a large part of the Highlands have no coverage.
OS map and compass but only if you know how to use them you also need some idea where you are to begin with.
First aid kit this will always be a bit of a compromise , the best bit of first aid is a course a first aid kit is a bit like the map and compass not much good if you don't know what to do with it.
What will you need not a lot really put together a few basics in pouch that will fit in a pocket why not a comprehensive kit well that depends on several factors see to many geared up to cover everything from a skinned knee to a gunshot wound the truth is your chances of contracting a gunshot wound are low and your chances of surviving one a lot lower
i do know of on stalker who survived a gunshot wound somewhat of a miracle and the exception that proves the rule
What are the most likely emergencies on the hill, twenty five years in mountain rescue and the most common thing for people lost on the hill was hypothermia so a foil blanket might be good idea, trips and slips sprains and broken bones sprain you can probably make your own way of broken bones are a different story especially a compound fracture you are going to need help.

 

[bogtrotter]

Both weight and bulk are what you have to consider, so use a bit of common sense even though we hunt
in remote areas most of us will use some sort of vehicle to get to the rough vicinity,be that a 4x4 or an Argo or similar.
Even though the ground amounted to a little in excess of 32,000 acres and the miles covered in a days stalking could be quite high the average being about eight if I remember correctly it was seldom.that you would be more than a couple of miles from one of the vehicles be that the 4x4 or the Argo.
So common sense suggests a great deal of stuff could be left in the vehicles,especially if you are hunting in a group a little more thought is needed if hunting alone.
Thinks that can be left in vehicle a comprehensive first aid kit ,food ,thermos etc what to leave and what to take will be dictated by the size of the party and the weather conditions.
What to take always travelled as light as possible many stalkers weigh themselves down with more stuff than they will ever need.
The essentials rifle and ammo of course bino's and a knife I would add a walking stick not shooting sticks, shooting sticks are more or less redundant on the hill 99.9% of shots on the hill will be prone the other .1% might be leaning on a rock but you certainly won't need shooting sticks a walking stick on the other hand is an aid its like an extra leg on the hill a steady for your spotting scope and a handle for your dragging rope.
Rope a short length of rope to be used for extraction as explained in previous post.
Knife many carry a second knife I usually have spares in the vehicle but tend just carry one on the hill if I 'm going to lose one and I have a few times its usually during or after the gralloch not before so not that important and if you are caught out you can do a gralloch wiith a spent case hammer the mouth closed with a rock and its plenty sharp enough
a bit short for bleeding just bleed through the diaphragm job done.
Bino's while I like my telescope especially at stag time I tend to use it to spy from the vehicle and the .leave it there hopefully I have found my intended beast by then and the bino's will suffice for the actual stalk the telescope just being additional weight to carry the same goes for range finders do you really need one to judge 200 yards practice with it before you go stalking so that you can judge shootable distance one less thing to weigh you down.
Mobile phone just remember a large part of the Highlands have no coverage.
OS map and compass but only if you know how to use them you also need some idea where you are to begin with.
First aid kit this will always be a bit of a compromise , the best bit of first aid is a course a first aid kit is a bit like the map and compass not much good if you don't know what to do with it.
What will you need not a lot really put together a few basics in pouch that will fit in a pocket why not a comprehensive kit well that depends on several factors see to many geared up to cover everything from a skinned knee to a gunshot wound the truth is your chances of contracting a gunshot wound are low and your chances of surviving one a lot lower
i do know of on stalker who survived a gunshot wound somewhat of a miracle and the exception that proves the rule
What are the most likely emergencies on the hill, twenty five years in mountain rescue and the most common thing for people lost on the hill was hypothermia so a foil blanket might be good idea, trips and slips sprains and broken bones sprain you can probably make your own way of broken bones are a different story especially a compound fracture you are going to need help.

don't know what happened there only half the post printed will maybe redo later.

 

[caorach]

I think it is useful to ask the question but, in the end, there is no substitute for experience and I don't think you can learn how to operate on the hill without going and doing it. Now, perhaps you do have considerable other experience of this sort of thing and so are merely asking about what additional "stalking" gear people need to carry. However, if you don't then I would urge caution and I would urge you to gain experience over time as this is something you can't learn from the internet. I'm sure there's stuff I'd carry that others wouldn't, or stuff I'd not carry that others find essential and you will also find your level where you balance risk against practicality. I'm frequently out on remote hill/moor, usually alone, often well beyond mobile coverage and miles beyond where you can get anything other than a helicopter but I probably carry slightly different stuff every day I'm out and that in itself highlights that this isn't "once size fits all." So, it is good to ask but having to ask might also indicate that you aren't quite prepared for a "big" trip onto the hill just yet and maybe you should take some "smaller" steps first. It is great fun and something you should do, but not very forgiving so maybe you should work up to bigger days out.

In terms of signaling in extreme emergency then there is only one answer - a certified PLB. Everything else is just, basically, a gadget to allow you to say hello to your mum. PLBs are now licensed for use on land in the UK, a relatively recent development, and they have to meet a certain standard giving the highest likelihood of getting a message out under any circumstances. The system is monitored by, mostly, military organisations who also deal with plane crashes or naval disasters so you are getting access to the absolute best and most effective system to deal with an emergency. Given this it is a system to use only when you've exhausted every other contingency plan, you don't go on the hill with a PLB as your only plan, but it is the system to have in your pocket if you want to maximize your chances when it really goes badly wrong and all options for self recovery are exhausted. I believe average response time for a GPS equiped PLB transmitter activation is something like 8 minutes and it is something around 45 minutes for the non-GPS version.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Lots of interesting and thought provoking comments. One thing I've carried is an A4 laminated map of the ground. A key aspect in these outings is knowing when to call it a day. My father for instance had a rule that no hinds were to be shot after 1pm in order to get home in daylight on short winter days. Another aspect is agreeing who is in charge on the hill.

In summary kit is handy, but you need to know what you are going to do with the kit when things don't go to plan. Practising from time to time is essential, especially rehearsing what to do when the person normally in charge is incapacitated.

Regards

JCS

 

[potshotpat]

You don't need to know any of this stuff If you have DSC1.

 

[bogtrotter]

Don't know what happened got a message saying there was a security problem so will try again .
Heart attacks are also a risk an asprin allowed to dissolve slowly the tongue can help and keep coughing regularly until help arrives,depends on how severe it is I managed to make my own way home slowly I may add.
Cuts are one of the most likely injuries for a stalker to receive and one that he can deal with provided he has not cut an artery.
So a small basic first aid kit a c

 

[bogtrotter]

I give up been trying to post on this thread all evening keep getting message error occurred when I try to post and it only prints part of what I have written Grrr

 

[Apthorpe]

As above, but I'd also be wary of carrying excess clobber, and also of gadgets that may be annoying to use. Others may be happier to lug the weight and have multiple redundancy.
I don't like fire steels and the like, nor see the need for four light sources
Study the map and google maps for shelter, water, cover, bog, etc.
Assuming I'm not planning to be out overnight for more than one night by choice i would consider including:
- 2x Disposable lighter (adjustable flame type) in plastic bags packed separately.
- Hexi stove with half pack of hexi in.
- tea/cocoa
- shortbread/ flapjacks, packed lunch
- a little bacon, oats, sugar, trail mix, whisky/cigar (for morale)
- some sort of cured meat ( e.g droewors/cabanos/ham), tin of oily fish
- Dry socks
- laminated map
- merino thermals
- 1 good fleece or softie in winter. No down. Avoid cotton and excess clothing.
- alternative to poncho/groundsheet - or lightweight tent or bivi bag (2kg and compared to sodding around with a wet poncho...)
- 10-20 rounds ammunition.
- sectional cleaning rod
- insulating tape
- stick