Is it the few though?
Around the city suburbs of Aberdeen, there are numerous places where things are fly tipped, stolen, damage done - keep people on the public forests/land/walks and out of agricultural or private land. Similar to the USA.
Right to roam
- Thread starter BenBhoy
- Start date
Around the city suburbs of Aberdeen, there are numerous places where things are fly tipped, stolen, damage done - keep people on the public forests/land/walks and out of agricultural or private land. Similar to the USA.
For me, this is the issue.
In some places I don’t see a Scottish Style access right being that much of a problem, as there just aren’t that many people there.
However, I used to live in Birmingham and if we got a system similar to the Scottish, I can see a lot of the land for (say) 10 or so miles around the city being of little to no use to its current owners - it would just be turned into a public amenity and would be near impossible to put it to any use that is either not safe to undertake near the public (shooting, forestry etc) or requires the land to be left without interference.
You are correct in what you say but I was referring to direct taxation such as non-domestic rates
we have cities in Scotland too!!!
Indeed, and I’m not saying that to suggest it’s all roses in Scotland either.
I’m just observing that it may work better where there are large areas with low population density, and worst in areas where it’s high. Given England has the higher population density, it seems a reasonable conclusion that implementation in England would emphasise the negatives.
I can readily imagine if causes problems for you guys around those areas, and also more rural areas with high tourist rates.
Its like all changes in legislation, you get used to it.
Personally I have no issue with the legislation in Scotland, despite have one permission adjoining a town and another that is heavily used by dog walkers. I think its great that people can enjoy the countryside and the vast majority cause no real problems.
People still farm on the edges of Edinburgh and Glasgow, people still shoot on the woodlands in these same areas.
There were always problems on the urban fringe, as I imagine there are in England too.
The Responsibilie Access legislation (i refuse to call it RtR because its not) actually addresses many of the issues. The problem is its not enforced
Mountain Bug
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say that I'm completely wrong. Yes, the bit about the gardens I was wrong. The rest not so much. The question still remains about your feelings on someone using your land without permission and telling you to pound sand when confronted. No need to answer because it is the same way we all would feel whether it is a law or not.
Scott
Mountain Bug
Well-Known Member
I completely agree. If someone would show some respect and courtesy, I would be happy to let them camp, stroll, climb or whatever. Hunting would be a no but thats for different reasons. Truth is though, in thirty years not once have I had anyone knock on the door to ask but I've had plenty that decided to give themselves permission without giving two sh#ts about my rights as a landowner. Its as if they felt a sense of entitlement to something that wasn't theirs eh @Rake Aboot.
Scott
Have a look on UTube I think that’s where I saw a farmer with a muck spreader take on a camper who thought he could camp where ever he wanted.
Sadly, in my experience, there are a few people who spoil it for everyone else. We farm about 5 miles from the nearest village. I would estimate that I have to deal with escaped stock 3-5 times a year due to gates being left open on public footpaths and the shoot on our land have had to abandon a pen on the side of a footpath as the wire has been cut so many times. We probably deal with fly tipping twice a year and wild camping (oddly often in the middle of wheat fields) every couple of years.
What really annoying me is that we established a lot of ground nesting bird habitat, then spent the next five years dealing with angry dog walkers who were convinced they had a right to let their dogs run on them. We were fed up with arguments and not achieving anything, so gave up with them.
We farm some land in the south as well, on the edge of a large town and that is a nightmare. People walk wherever they want to and we get fly tipping at least once a month. We have given up repairing fences now, as any rails are stolen within a month. The same with hedge plants. People just walk wherever they want and get very angry when you ask them not to.
I think the issue is that most of the people who do not take responsible access have absolutely no understanding of the countryside, which is probably partly our fault as farmers. The normal response I get if I try to politely ask someone to keep to the footpaths is either a polite apology or a barrage of abuse against entitled farmers.
What really annoying me is that we established a lot of ground nesting bird habitat, then spent the next five years dealing with angry dog walkers who were convinced they had a right to let their dogs run on them. We were fed up with arguments and not achieving anything, so gave up with them.
We farm some land in the south as well, on the edge of a large town and that is a nightmare. People walk wherever they want to and we get fly tipping at least once a month. We have given up repairing fences now, as any rails are stolen within a month. The same with hedge plants. People just walk wherever they want and get very angry when you ask them not to.
I think the issue is that most of the people who do not take responsible access have absolutely no understanding of the countryside, which is probably partly our fault as farmers. The normal response I get if I try to politely ask someone to keep to the footpaths is either a polite apology or a barrage of abuse against entitled farmers.
The trend for "dog exercise fields" annoys me. These are enclosed areas where dogs are allowed to go nuts running around in circles. The problem is that dogs are black and white so the dog will then treat any field in this way. With hilly areas and trees in fields its not always obvious that the field is occupied or there is an open gate into woodland. Next thing I get a call to despatch a wounded deer.
They're actually a very sensible idea.
For some dogs, it's the only time they're ever off a lead and off a pavement.
Better to let them loose in an enclosed environment than in the open countryside.
I dunnoe about black and white....
My two mutts are totally different dogs when out on a general walk or when out working . They know difference
.
As for parks .. if anywhere a member of Joe public who doesnt have enclosed garden or pally with a farmer ....good places to go train dog on recall as your enclosed and have a chances of catching said dog.
But folk are lazy and don't train them whilst there ....just let dog run mental and free and dont use place for training
Paul
My two mutts are totally different dogs when out on a general walk or when out working . They know difference
.
As for parks .. if anywhere a member of Joe public who doesnt have enclosed garden or pally with a farmer ....good places to go train dog on recall as your enclosed and have a chances of catching said dog.
But folk are lazy and don't train them whilst there ....just let dog run mental and free and dont use place for training
Paul
Whitefront
Well-Known Member
I farm south of the border, but members of my family farm on the edge of Edinburgh. They tell me the access situation is a nightmare for them in that locality, not least because nobody seems to take any account of the Code. They just know they have a right of access to other people's private land. End of.
My relatives had a small shoot based on a pen in a wood. Dog walkers frequently drive out of town to use the wood. They are in the habit of lifting their dogs over the stock fence (which is frequently cut) and letting them run amok in what they see as an ideal exercise ground. A couple of years ago a farm worker politely remonstrated with one woman (whom, it later emerged, had a dog walking business) and pointed out that the wood was used for game shooting and this was a particularly sensitive time of year, with the birds just released, etc. She reported the encounter to the police, making out that the farm hand had essentially threatened to shoot her dogs. He lost his guns. It took about a year to get them back. No action was taken against the complainer.
The farm in question is no longer has a shoot.
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Right to Roam , Sounds good until its your garden and your farm / Estate ! Gates left open , stock getting out ! etc etc etc . The crazy stuff i have seen had one fool decided my back lawn was ok to picknick on our lawn with a dog
As a landowner myself, directly affected by "open access", and also speaking as someone who enjoys being out and about in the countryside and having access to other people's land, I can fully understand both sides of the argument.
My personal opinion on what's needed, UK wide, is a much better, more accessible, well maintained network of public footpaths, even if it means creating some new ones to link existing routes together.
There's no ambiguity about a footpath.
I have particularly enjoyed walking in some areas of North Wales where a real effort has been made to clear old routes and instal proper signage. The Ardudwy Way springs to mind. I'd recommend it.
My personal opinion on what's needed, UK wide, is a much better, more accessible, well maintained network of public footpaths, even if it means creating some new ones to link existing routes together.
There's no ambiguity about a footpath.
I have particularly enjoyed walking in some areas of North Wales where a real effort has been made to clear old routes and instal proper signage. The Ardudwy Way springs to mind. I'd recommend it.
If they were treated as a training field, for a dog to learn recall or how to stay at heel, yes Id agree. But the one I have driven past the owners simply stand there in house shoes on a small bit of tarmac sipping coffee, whilst the dogs run wild. Im sorry but Im pretty strict about this. Aside from a quick burn around the garden first thing in the morning for a pee, the aim is for a dog to be at heel or lead 90% of the time. Both dog and human actively need to walk together. If standards slip overtime and the dog ends up within a few metres of the owner, thats OK, but you need to start strict.
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
As VSS has said, for some unfortunate dogs, they are the only way to let off steam.
Our 10-acre village green has unfortunatly turned into an unofficial free dog exercise field for anyone within driving distance, some people come as far as 15 miles away... It's turned into quite literally a "Crap Place"; mothers are frightened to walk the kids there because of the quantity of uncontrolled dogs. I won't go on there. The committee members are quite cool with it all... they all walk their dogs on the green at 7.30am.. quite a pack. You can sometimes hear the scraping between dogs in the darkness... a few have been bitten.
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