RS 62 vs RS60

[Cambridge Pimpernel]

Hello mate,
I've told a lie and haven't fired my loaded 100grn fox copper with RS60 yet, they are in my box ready for the next range trip. I've been using the fox with n550 with 3 roe dropped on the spot no issues. I have both the fox and Barnes 100 ttsx loaded ready to try. If I can be of any further help let me know

Understood. Do pls post the range results. What load did you put in them? Nb I assume its the 110 TTSX rather than the 95gr TTSX you are using. Nb2 if you find the RS60 quite pokey, consider Elcho17, which is basically the same, but a shade lighter, RS 62 ( which was specifically made for the .270Win), or Vit N160. Nb3 I regularly use c50gr RS60 behind a 215gr Berger. Its a helluva boom. QL suggests an even bigger load to get the 110s singing at c 3100fps; not sure I’ll load up that far!

 

[Sharpie]

Understood. Do pls post the range results. What load did you put in them? Nb I assume its the 110 TTSX rather than the 95gr TTSX you are using. Nb2 if you find the RS60 quite pokey, consider Elcho17, which is basically the same, but a shade lighter, RS 62 ( which was specifically made for the .270Win), or Vit N160. Nb3 I regularly use c50gr RS60 behind a 215gr Berger. Its a helluva boom. QL suggests an even bigger load to get the 110s singing at c 3100fps; not sure I’ll load up that far!

You are somewhat out of date.

Elcho17 was RS60, as TR140 was RS50. Imported and badged by Commonside Firearms before the RS powders were marketed here. That was long ago. And I suppose it is possible that formulations may have changed since then. Commonside are still the UK importers of the Reload Swiss powders.

RS60 is also Alliant Reloder 17

Where did you get the idea that RS62 was specifically made for 270 Win ?

As for using a 215gr bullet in 6.5CM, well that would be a first. Perhaps you are using it in .30 of some sort ?

As for "helluva boom" Well if you are using a somewhat slower powder than optimal in say a .308, that would be unsurprising.

The Handloading Bench by Laurie Holland – 6.5mm Cartridges, an Overview (Part 4)

The mid-size 6.5mm Trio. Left to right: 6.5X47mm Lapua; 260 Remington; 6.5mm Hornady Creedmoor Somewhat younger and smaller than my previous subject the 260 Rem, we have the giant-killing 6.5x47mm Lapua with a 4mm shorter case, nominally 47mm/1.85” length (Figure 1). When I used the cartridge...

www.targetshooter.co.uk

 

[Cambridge Pimpernel]

You are somewhat out of date.

Elcho17 was RS60, as TR140 was RS50. Imported and badged by Commonside Firearms before the RS powders were marketed here. That was long ago. And I suppose it is possible that formulations may have changed since then. Commonside are still the UK importers of the Reload Swiss powders.

RS60 is also Alliant Reloder 17

Where did you get the idea that RS62 was specifically made for 270 Win ?

As for using a 215gr bullet in 6.5CM, well that would be a first. Perhaps you are using it in .30 of some sort ?

As for "helluva boom" Well if you are using a somewhat slower powder than optimal in say a .308, that would be unsurprising.

The Handloading Bench by Laurie Holland – 6.5mm Cartridges, an Overview (Part 4)

The mid-size 6.5mm Trio. Left to right: 6.5X47mm Lapua; 260 Remington; 6.5mm Hornady Creedmoor Somewhat younger and smaller than my previous subject the 260 Rem, we have the giant-killing 6.5x47mm Lapua with a 4mm shorter case, nominally 47mm/1.85” length (Figure 1). When I used the cartridge...

www.targetshooter.co.uk

I was on the range last weekend at 1000yds, identical loads, same rifle, comparing E17 with RS60 to see if I could use up some E17 that I have without reconfiguring the RS60 load developed for my 308. c50fps difference between them. I know everyone Says they are identical but theyre clearly not. I have known and shot with the owner of Commonside for 20 years and will ask him about the difference when I see him in 10 days or so. Top man.

For RS62 being designed for the .270 - see Reloaders website here Reload Swiss RS® - RS62 Rifle Powder

I never said I was using a 6.5CM. I don’t own one. Incorrect assumption in your part!

 

[Sharpie]

I was on the range last weekend at 1000yds, identical loads, same rifle, comparing E17 with RS60 to see if I could use up some E17 that I have without reconfiguring the RS60 load developed for my 308. c50fps difference between them. I know everyone Says they are identical but theyre clearly not. I have known and shot with the owner of Commonside for 20 years and will ask him about the difference when I see him in 10 days or so. Top man.

For RS62 being designed for the .270 - see Reloaders website here Reload Swiss RS® - RS62 Rifle Powder

I never said I was using a 6.5CM. I don’t own one. Incorrect assumption in your part!

Thank you for that info. I was unaware of the .270 connection with RS62 development.

The OP was asking specifically about RS60 vs. RS62 in the 6.5 Creedmore.

I am guessing that your stock of Elcho17 is from some years ago now. TBH a difference of 50fps in your .308 would not seem to me to be out of the ordinary for batch-batch variance, never mind any changes in storage, or slight reformulation of RS60 over the years.

FWIW I still have two unopened 1kg tubs of TR140 left from that era, having bought 5kg from Nigel, which I intend to use at some point in the future. They have been stored in good cool dry conditions, so I would be interested in his opinion on whether any degradation is likely. And whether it may be directly substituted with modern RS50 without too much re-checking of loads.

 

[Sharpie]

Further: from Reload Swiss RS® - RS60 Rifle Powder

Verification tolerances
Batch-to-batch tolerance:

v5 ±12 m/s
pmax ±250 bar

So a variance of up to 24 m/s (78.7 fps) between batches would be within production tolerances. Your observed 50fps difference between Elcho17 and RS60 is well inside that.

 

[Sakoodin1]

Thanks Laurie, much appreciated! Sounds like RS60 may be worth a try for me as I won’t be pushing much higher MV wise.

regards,
Gixer

Hi gixer,how did you get in with the rs60 in the creed? I’ve just bought a creed and I was going to use rs62 but had a google and this thread popped up I also am looking for as good a speed as I can

 

[gixer1]

Hi gixer,how did you get in with the rs60 in the creed? I’ve just bought a creed and I was going to use rs62 but had a google and this thread popped up I also am looking for as good a speed as I can

I ended up using RS62 and have found it very good - right out to 650+ yards. I use it in my target and stalking load-

stalking - 140gr Sierra SPBT’s with 42.9gr seated at 2.268” Ogive, Lapua SRP and CCI450 primer, going at around 2750fps

Target - 140gr ELDM’s with 44.5gr seated at 2.290” Ogive. Starline SRP and CCI450 primer going at around 2800fps.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[Sakoodin1]

I ended up using RS62 and have found it very good - right out to 650+ yards. I use it in my target and stalking load-

stalking - 140gr Sierra SPBT’s with 42.9gr seated at 2.268” Ogive, Lapua SRP and CCI450 primer, going at around 2750fps

Target - 140gr ELDM’s with 44.5gr seated at 2.290” Ogive. Starline SRP and CCI450 primer going at around 2800fps.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Gixer

Thanks for that mate looking at the 127grn lrx so I need speed and lots of it,a mate of mine uses rs60 in his with ttsx and has good results so I will try it but will definitely use 62 for the 143’s eldx

 

[Malxwal]

Thanks for that mate looking at the 127grn lrx so I need speed and lots of it,a mate of mine uses rs60 in his with ttsx and has good results so I will try it but will definitely use 62 for the 143’s eldx

If you're running copper, the Yew Tree 114 TLR were doing 3050 out of my 22" barrel with RS52 (admittedly, RS52 isn't good to find now). N150 also very good under that bullet.
When I used RS60, I found it to be very temperature sensitive.

 

[Sakoodin1]

If you're running copper, the Yew Tree 114 TLR were doing 3050 out of my 22" barrel with RS52 (admittedly, RS52 isn't good to find now). N150 also very good under that bullet.
When I used RS60, I found it to be very temperature sensitive.

Hmmmm thanks for that is vit n550 worth a look too?

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Dont choose a powder based on theoretical loads
Choose one you can get reliably

N550 Is a struggle at present and will be until closer to end of year.

RS52/60/62 isn’t a problem at present but if people who shoot sub 500 rounds a year keep buying 5kg+ at a time (Circe 1500 rounds worth!) every time they see there favourite powder then they will all be in short supply again

It’s panic buying fuel all over again!

 

[Sakoodin1]

Dont choose a powder based on theoretical loads
Choose one you can get reliably

N550 Is a struggle at present and will be until closer to end of year.

RS52/60/62 isn’t a problem at present but if people who shoot sub 500 rounds a year keep buying 5kg+ at a time (Circe 1500 rounds worth!) every time they see there favourite powder then they will all be in short supply again

It’s panic buying fuel all over again!

Thanks for that yea I bet there’s someone somewhere with a shed full of the stuff they don’t need but everyone else does ,I will try the rs60 and see how it goes? Ideally r/l 17 would of been my go to but hey ho

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Thanks for that yea I bet there’s someone somewhere with a shed full of the stuff they don’t need but everyone else does ,I will try the rs60 and see how it goes? Ideally r/l 17 would of been my go to but hey ho

Do you enjoy paying more per pound for the same product sold in kilos?
That’s al buying RL17 is vs RS60

All pound powders are significantly more expensive than kilo powders
I also don’t see the point of putting more pressure on the powder shortage situation by choosing one “made” in the US when we have tonnes of Viht and RS coming out of Europe

 

[Sakoodin1]

Do you enjoy paying more per pound for the same product sold in kilos?
That’s al buying RL17 is vs RS60

All pound powders are significantly more expensive than kilo powders
I also don’t see the point of putting more pressure on the powder shortage situation by choosing one “made” in the US when we have tonnes of Viht and RS coming out of Europe

When I started using 17 in the .270 I just found it a good powder to be honest and easy to use and plenty speed with it? it’s not I enjoy paying more but I don’t mind paying slightly more if I like it?tried a couple of vits and couldn’t get the velocity I wanted (could well of been wrong choices I admit) I will give rs60 a go though it should work fine, I use 62 in the .260 ack and it’s grand

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

RL17 IS RS60

 

[Malxwal]

RL17 IS RS60

Ed, so there's still plenty RS coming over as yet, contrary to the talked of dearth due to Ukraine situation?

 

[ChesterP]

For anyone struggling to find RS62 or RS60 come to that, for 6.5CM, I know that stocks of N555 were relatively plentiful until fairly recently as I bought quite a few tubs. I have found it a very good alternative and it does generate pretty decent results. It has to be loaded slightly down on RS62 but for comparison, using 140gr SST bullets in Lapua SR cases, my comparative loads were:

COAL 2.874, 44gr RS62, CCI450 primers: MV 2675fps which is plenty for that bullet and 5 shot groups averaging under 0.5" @ 100 yds
COAL 2.874, 41.6 gr N555, CCI450 primers: MV 2730fps and average 0.6" 5 shot groups.

The specific heat of explosion is slightly different between them, but like RS60, N555 is not a true double base powder but a coated powder. Qex N555 is 3750 KJ/Kg compared with RS62 which is around 3720, so very similar yet N555 maintains higher pressure over the duration of the pressure cycle allowing for higher MVs.

A word of caution though. Whilst these two may be regarded as single base, loading either up to max is likely to see barrel throat wear equivalent to a double base loaded slightly milder, so there's no free lunch.

If the current supply issues continue with the RS series, N555 is certainly a worthy alternative.

I would echo Laurie's comments about the need of awareness around the differences in MVs/peak pressures between some brands of Sr brass and LR brass. My own findings using Lapua brass were in the case of both powders, you tend to achieve similar pressures loading LR brass about 1.5 gr down on SR. I have been on the range where someone was taking load data supplied from a forum for SR brass and using it for his LR brass. Not only was the "bang" especially loud when it went off, but it resulted in a sticky bolt needing the assistance of a mallet to loosen it. His chrono results for a 139 Lapua Scenar from his 22 inch barrel showed almost 2900fps, some 200fps more than the same load gave in the 24 degree ambient temperatures for the SR brass. Don't go there.....

 

[Stalker62]

For anyone struggling to find RS62 or RS60 come to that, for 6.5CM...

Whenever I read something like this post (or anything from @Laurie), I am reminded of how short a time I have left, how much there is to know, and how I am never going to get there.




Then I think of this...




Just don't judge me on ballistics!

 

[Laurie]

There is another contender in this bracket now - Winchester StaBALL 6.5. I've just finished writing up a preliminary look at it in 6.5x55 comparing it to the sadly now-gone H4350, and the report will be up on Target Shooter online soon, once I get some photos done.

 

[Jelen]

There is another contender in this bracket now - Winchester StaBALL 6.5. I've just finished writing up a preliminary look at it in 6.5x55 comparing it to the sadly now-gone H4350, and the report will be up on Target Shooter online soon, once I get some photos done.

Thank you, looking forward to reading that.