RTA deer : tell me I did the right thing !

Some interesting comments for sure and some just simply not true or people are misinformed.

I am so glad I live in a constabulary area which has a very good HAD scheme,

All the HAD's are very experienced stalkers and deer managers who have been trained and assessed by police firearms officers and HAD assessors before they go live on call outs.

Once you have passed the assessments you are exempt of some of the deer act's that control normal stalking activities and firearms laws ie calibres and use of shotguns on the highway but only while being called out as a police volunteer.
 
Is there a scenario in which I could or should have acted differently ?
Only if we were still the 1970's and DCI Gene Hunt was on the scene!

The person who should have acted differently is he/she who hit the poor critter. Another example of why all vehicles should still be equipped with a starting handle!

In all seriousness, you very much did the right thing as ALQ on a so-called "open certificate" does not permit discharge of a firearm on land other than that you have permission.

K
 
Only if we were still the 1970's and DCI Gene Hunt was on the scene!

The person who should have acted differently is he/she who hit the poor critter. Another example of why all vehicles should still be equipped with a starting handle!

In all seriousness, you very much did the right thing as ALQ on a so-called "open certificate" does not permit discharge of a firearm on land other than that you have permission.

K
There are no conditions on a shotgun certificate that limit where it can be used.
 
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Some interesting comments for sure and some just simply not true or people are misinformed.

I am so glad I live in a constabulary area which has a very good HAD scheme,

All the HAD's are very experienced stalkers and deer managers who have been trained and assessed by police firearms officers and HAD assessors before they go live on call outs.

Once you have passed the assessments you are exempt of some of the deer act's that control normal stalking activities and firearms laws ie calibres and use of shotguns on the highway but only while being called out as a police volunteer.
With all due respect, and I am aware that this is your speciality subject, but I don't think you're correct in suggesting that it is a requirement to have passed an assessment before carrying out HD at the roadside.
It may well be a requirement if you want to be "on the list" of "approved" despatchers that the local police might from time to time call upon, but often it's local DMG groups that organise a volunteer HD scheme in a particular area, not the police.

Neither to I quite understand your comment suggesting that, once you have passed an assessment, you may be "exempt" from certain elements of the deer act. That cannot be true, surely? The deer act has clauses that cover HD, doesn't it? No need to be exempt.

Have a good read of the relevant section of "Deer: Law & Liabilities" by Parkes and Thornely. Everyone involved in deer management should have a copy of that book.

As far as I am aware, anyone who is suitably equipped and sufficiently experienced can carry out HD to end suffering. In fact, in walking away from such a situation, if you could have dealt with it but chose not to, you could be deemed to be responsible for unnecessarily prolonging suffering, which also carries penalties.

There is no restriction on what a shotgun can be used for, or where it can be used, so either that or a knife are the default tools. However, if the injured animal can be moved off the roadside and onto adjacent farmland there is no reason not to use a rifle. As I mentioned earlier, for the purpose of ending suffering, as far as I am aware (see Parkes & Thornely) it isn't neccessary to have the landowner's permission if it is believed that he/she would be in agreement. But the carcass ultimately belongs to the landowner, regardless of the circumstances of its death.

(Just for the record, I have HD listed as a condition for my .243 so I can use it if a casualty animal is mobile or for any other reason unapproachable, but on stationary casualties I will always use my .410 shotgun.
After my last experience using a knife for HD I think I'll give that option a miss for the time being, but I do know that my daughter uses a knife for dealing with roadside casualties, by going straight in to the heart).
 
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With all due respect, and I am aware that this is your speciality subject, but I don't think you're correct in suggesting that it is a requirement to have passed an assessment before carrying out HD at the roadside.
It may well be a requirement if you want to be "on the list" of "approved" despatchers that the local police might from time to time call upon, but often it's local DMG groups that organise a volunteer HD scheme in a particular area, not the police.

Have a good read of the relevant section of "Deer: Law & Liabilities" by Parkes and Thornely. Everyone involved in deer management should have a copy of that book.

As far as I am aware, anyone who is suitably equipped and sufficiently experienced can carry out HD to end suffering. In fact, in walking away from such a situation, if you could have dealt with it but chose not to, you could be deemed to be responsible for unnecessarily prolonging suffering, which also carries penalties.

There is no restriction on what a shotgun can be used for, or where it can be used, so either that or a knife are the default tools. However, if the injured animal can be moved off the roadside and onto adjacent farmland there is no reason not to use a rifle. As I mentioned earlier, for the purpose of ending suffering, as far as I am aware (see Parkes & Thornely) it isn't neccessary to have the landowner's permission if it is believed that he/she would be in agreement. But the carcass ultimately belongs to the landowner, regardless of the circumstances of its death.

(Just for the record, I have HD listed as a condition for my .243 so I can use it if a casualty animal is mobile or for any other reason unapproachable, but on stationary casualties I will always use my .410 shotgun.
After my last experience using a knife for HD I think I'll give that option a miss for the time being, but I do know that my daughter uses a knife for dealing with roadside casualties, by going straight in to the heart).
Worrying response that to @cookingfat
 
With all due respect, and I am aware that this is your speciality subject, but I don't think you're correct in suggesting that it is a requirement to have passed an assessment before carrying out HD at the roadside.
It may well be a requirement if you want to be "on the list" of "approved" despatchers that the local police might from time to time call upon, but often it's local DMG groups that organise a volunteer HD scheme in a particular area, not the police.

Neither to I quite understand your comment suggesting that, once you have passed an assessment, you may be "exempt" from certain elements of the deer act. That cannot be true, surely? The deer act has clauses that cover HD, doesn't it? No need to be exempt.

Have a good read of the relevant section of "Deer: Law & Liabilities" by Parkes and Thornely. Everyone involved in deer management should have a copy of that book.

As far as I am aware, anyone who is suitably equipped and sufficiently experienced can carry out HD to end suffering. In fact, in walking away from such a situation, if you could have dealt with it but chose not to, you could be deemed to be responsible for unnecessarily prolonging suffering, which also carries penalties.

There is no restriction on what a shotgun can be used for, or where it can be used, so either that or a knife are the default tools. However, if the injured animal can be moved off the roadside and onto adjacent farmland there is no reason not to use a rifle. As I mentioned earlier, for the purpose of ending suffering, as far as I am aware (see Parkes & Thornely) it isn't neccessary to have the landowner's permission if it is believed that he/she would be in agreement. But the carcass ultimately belongs to the landowner, regardless of the circumstances of its death.

(Just for the record, I have HD listed as a condition for my .243 so I can use it if a casualty animal is mobile or for any other reason unapproachable, but on stationary casualties I will always use my .410 shotgun.
After my last experience using a knife for HD I think I'll give that option a miss for the time being, but I do know that my daughter uses a knife for dealing with roadside casualties, by going straight in to the heart).
Do you know if the book has any comment on whether it is reasonable to believe that the authority responsible for the highway would give permission for shooting a deer on the highway without a representative or the Police present?

Also any comment on the matter of shooting within 50 feet of the highway without interruptng other users (in the context of humane dispatch without Police presence)?
 
Do you know if the book has any comment on whether it is reasonable to believe that the authority responsible for the highway would give permission for shooting a deer on the highway without a representative or the Police present?

Also any comment on the matter of shooting within 50 feet of the highway without interruptng other users (in the context of humane dispatch without Police presence)?
I will check when I get an opportunity.
 
Get a Police/RSPCA incident number. Then you are working as part of a team.

As others have said a RTA course gives you the knowledge, but unless your local police have a scheme and you get a request say at home.
 
That's the Hampshire Police HAD scheme, isn't it?
Can't find anything about the law in that link, just info about the way they run their own scheme.
Yes I know but now TVP doing the same and Wiltshire about to come on board.
Hampshire leading the way nationally with more constabularies taking up the Hants model.
 
Yes I know but now TVP doing the same and Wiltshire about to come on board.
Hampshire leading the way nationally with more constabularies taking up the Hants model.
Well that's great that HAD schemes are being rolled out, and people are able to access suitable training, but that doesn't alter the law regarding what an individual can or can't do if they find themselves unexpectedly involved in such a situation.
We're talking about two very different scenarios here.
 
I think this thread really serves to show how different views / procedures vary throughout the UK and with one police force, jurisdiction, locality, local view point to another.

The UK is still hugely diverse (a good thing to my mind) and whats best practice / acceptable in the commuter belt of the home counties is very very different rural parts of Norfolk or the West Country. Midlands up into Yorkshire - again all varies hugely. Wales is another completely different matter. Scotland has different law, but again what is OK up in the remote Northern parts wouldn’t be in the more urban central belt.

I think you have to work out what works in your local area, taking into account density of people, traffic, local views and sensibilities, police etc etc.
 
volunteer.
yep that’s a word that means no recompense for fuel, lack of sleep (I once did 4 RTA call outs one Xmas time, in 1 night covering a total of over 100 miles!) maintenance on my own vehicle driving to said call out etc!

Would that be correct?

If that is correct, then nothing’s changed for the better or for the man doing the job!

Plus, it cost you to do the course, travel etc so where’s the incentive?

There isn’t any!
 
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yep that’s a word that means no recompense for fuel, lack of sleep (I once did 4 RTA call outs one Xmas time, in 1 night covering a total of over 100 miles!) maintenance on my own vehicle driving to said call out etc!

Would that be correct?

If that is correct, then nothing’s changed for the better or for the man doing the job!

Plus, it cost you to do the course, travel etc so where’s the incentive?

There isn’t any!
All Hants and TVP HAD’s Can claim mileage expenses but funnily none do

I don’t control the cost of the course and it seems to vary depending on which provider is chosen.

I do agree there should be some kind of sponsorship from someone for this as the volunteers are saving huge amounts of money and police resources.

Lee I have this many times before most volunteers do it for there love of deer and giving something back.
I know it’s not for everyone and people like yourself have no interest in helping and that’s fine.
 
All Hants and TVP HAD’s Can claim mileage expenses but funnily none do

I don’t control the cost of the course and it seems to vary depending on which provider is chosen.

I do agree there should be some kind of sponsorship from someone for this as the volunteers are saving huge amounts of money and police resources.

Lee I have this many times before most volunteers do it for there love of deer and giving something back.
I know it’s not for everyone and people like yourself have no interest in helping and that’s fine.
I did help and give back for 4/5 years, all times day and night, so no need to preach to me, from a moral high ground!

It’s a system at can work, if people pull their weight, which in my experience they don’t.
 
I did help and give back for 4/5 years, all times day and night, so no need to preach to me, from a moral high ground!

It’s a system at can work, if people pull their weight, which in my experience they don’t.
No moral high ground from me!

I just said it’s not for everyone and than includes you judging by your comments.

I have been doing it for 40 years and have expected nothing back so your 4-5 year is a drop in the ocean.
 
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