RTA humane dispatch courses

[mereside]

A bit harsh on the penis thing most definitely!

perhaps there should be a poll.... of those who have got pistols for humane dispatch, how many are ex pistol shooters/possessed pistols before the ban?
and how many experienced stalkers who never had pistols feel the need to possess one for humane dispatch?

I did not shoot pistols before the ban and after being in certain situations put an application in and working with the dog there is sometimes an advantage using a pistol/revolver.
coming from a none pistol shooter it made it harder o obtain as the police force would not issue due to never firing a pistol/revolver i ended up going across the water to do a training course to prove i was safe.
atb wayne

 

[monarman]

Brian and Wayne have already started and like myself has never owned a pistol although I have received non civilian training in the use of various pistols and 'other' weapons therefore have shot pistols. They feel a need for one whereas I don't. Incidently I stalk in similar areas to peebleshire with the same topography and vegetation and have yet needed to follow up a deer in such dense cover that my rifle has been a hindrance.

 

[jamross65]

Somebody just got in touch with me and said that pistols are just penis extensions for a lot of folk!!! ... Not sure I agree with that as a generalised statement, but I do think that there might well be some (nay, MANY) cases where this might apply.

I do still feel that the DESIRE for them outweighs the NEED for them in most cases, and some of the arguments FOR them are pretty flimsy!

Regards

​Mike.

Mike

Can you give an example of a flimsy argument for ownership but where that certificate was still granted? I'm keen to know what police force would still grant under those circumstances...

 

[Tiff]

If I am tracking deer in cover, I mean proper cover where you are fighting through Sitka with the dog on a 12m lead trying to protect your eyes, never standing taller than a stoop at best, but often on knees or a kind of squatting shuffle, please tell me how you could possibly carry a rifle or a shotgun without it being more of a hindrance, or at risk of getting damaged, and then expect to discharge it from maybe 1-5metres away at a wounded beast that's still very much alive? When someone says you could carry a rifle or shotgun I seriously wonder about two things, firstly do they really make every effort with a tracking dog in the first place to recover, and secondly you obviously do not do much follow up for extraction in similar woods to those I stalk in beyond a cursory look to see if the deer is 'lying there'......

when I applied for permission to possess a pistol/revolver for humane dispatch I was invited in to discuss it over a coffee after submitting a detailed application and covering letter. Instead I asked the FEO if they wanted to come to my ground to see the difficulty for themselves, and they readily agreed. One of them has a little experience with firearms coming from a farming background, the other none. The FEO with no experience whatsoever took one look at the woods and asked two questions, do Sika really live in cover that thick to which I pointed out the several runs within a few yards of him. He then asked how I could possibly follow one into there with a weapon as large as a rifle or shotgun. So what do I do? Just leave it or use a revolver which is far more usable under any circumstances when tracking in such growth with a dog.

If any of the doubters want to prove me wrong by showing me what I'm doing wrong give me a bell if your ever in Peebleshire.

Sounds like we have similar ground in many respects, despite being at the other end of the country - the stooping/shuffle comment is the image I was trying to portray. I went through a similar experience regarding the police and agree that many people who comment on these sort of threads have little experience regarding dispatching animals in very tough situations - often made worse because it is all done using a head torch! Equally though, those that do shoot in the same terrain and do not wish to own a pistol I have no objections to - it's a personal choice.

In the years I've owned a pistol, I've only needed to dispatch two deer with it (1 roe, 1 red, + numerous other stock and horses outside of stalking) and can honestly say I would not have been able to dispatch these deer safely with anything else. For me, stopping the suffering of these two animals justifies all the hundreds of times I've carried it and not used it. For this reason I really don't understand why animal welfare charities like the BDS are so opposed to something that can reduce the suffering of deer in certain circumstances.

 

[jamross65]

Brian and Wayne have already started and like myself has never owned a pistol although I have received non civilian training in the use of various pistols and 'other' weapons therefore have shot pistols. They feel a need for one whereas I don't. Incidently I stalk in similar areas to peebleshire with the same topography and vegetation and have yet needed to follow up a deer in such dense cover that my rifle has been a hindrance.

Did you do it with a tracking dog on a lead pulling you forward on the scent, or at your own pace with as much time as necessary to make your way through shut in cover?

 

[monarman]

Admitadly at my own pace with no dog yanking me. Petzl headtorches....best thing since sliced bread!

 

[jamross65]

Admitadly at my own pace with no dog yanking me. Petzl headtorches....best thing since sliced bread!

Ah, the priceless head torch! If I was using the dog the tracking would be left until daylight next morning to be honest!

One of the things I argued with the FLD when they asked why I thought every stalker in the land wasn't applying for a revolver if they were indeed so necessary, was that perhaps they were not as diligent as me in attempting to recover and dispatch all deer that run off!!! Seriously, I refused to answer a question whose answer was based on conjecture but I did admit that anyone stalking on open hill ground in my opinion was not in need of a handgun for the opposite reasons as those that I think supports its use in my circumstances...

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

To me this thread is a bit like somebody giving advice on shooting a running Boar having only shot static targets at Bisley.

If you have no experience of, or have never used a handgun why have an opinion decrying those that see fit to have it in their tool box.

The land covered and reasons for having one have satisfied the local flo so therefore id like to see a good reason as to why having this as another option hinders the ability of making a humane kill.

 

[stone]

I like the fact I can carry a pistol aswell as a rifle
if I need to struggle in tough cover .... I can hold the pistol at arms length and shoot one handed when ever needed
But I find that a bit of a struggle to do with a rifle and even harder with a scoped one.. Not really that safe either

yep I also like heavy shells with the auto
but then I don't like to track with the auto .... Plus I have had a few ricochet issues in the past whilst shooting into dense cover where pellets never made it to the injured deer
but the auto is still very effective and works well most of the time

often it is better to carry a few tools for the job than just one
a pistol enables that to happen easier

at some point you will be gratefull you did
and on some of the stalking I shoot deer on,
the cover is that dense
​it often makes it impossible to follow a wounded beast and carry a rifle with out getting snagged up to do the job quickly and safely

i agree a pistol is not every ones cup of tea ,but then choice of tools for the job is an individual requirement
if you need it .. then you need it

 

[monarman]

did I not say i'd shot pistols under non civilian circumstances? just never owned one.

 

[widows son]

BDS course on dispatch load of crap ,pistols for dispatch another load of crap .
Just to point something out I had pistols for many years .

10 deer this year I've road side dispatched , the closest similarity they had was they had all been hit by vehicles class room humane dispatch on each and every road side dispatch you have to treat like your first ,as you don't know what's involved ,a deer hanging out a vehicle or half dead at the side of the road , police involvement etc the lst is endless

Ive watched a man with a pistol go to dispatch a deer with a pistol 4 shots (joke) another approached a deer with a pistol and it got up a run pistol again a waste of time .

Boys toys sum it up pretty well .

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

BDS course on dispatch load of crap ,pistols for dispatch another load of crap .
Just to point something out I had pistols for many years .

10 deer this year I've road side dispatched , the closest similarity they had was they had all been hit by vehicles class room humane dispatch on each and every road side dispatch you have to treat like your first ,as you don't know what's involved ,a deer hanging out a vehicle or half dead at the side of the road , police involvement etc the lst is endless

Ive watched a man with a pistol go to dispatch a deer with a pistol 4 shots (joke) another approached a deer with a pistol and it got up a run pistol again a waste of time .

Boys toys sum it up pretty well .

The Deer God has spoken

Ofcourse you stating that makes it right and others opinions are of no significance..

I could state exactly what you have done with guys using rifles not pistols...

If you are trained proficiently as would be expected then I doubt the scenario you speak of would be representative

 

[jamross65]

BDS course on dispatch load of crap ,pistols for dispatch another load of crap .
Just to point something out I had pistols for many years .

10 deer this year I've road side dispatched , the closest similarity they had was they had all been hit by vehicles class room humane dispatch on each and every road side dispatch you have to treat like your first ,as you don't know what's involved ,a deer hanging out a vehicle or half dead at the side of the road , police involvement etc the lst is endless

Ive watched a man with a pistol go to dispatch a deer with a pistol 4 shots (joke) another approached a deer with a pistol and it got up a run pistol again a waste of time .

Boys toys sum it up pretty well .

To be fair Bob you are actually commenting on what the thread was started for, and it seems it has moved away from the OP. But would you concede that under those circumstances where a beast is being tracked in such dense cover a rifle is a difficult thing to carry or use while working a tracking dog?

 

[Cut+Squirt]

I cant get my head round the fact that the county council and police are not funding these courses, and people are paying out of their own pockets to attend a course so they can dispatch deer on behalf of the police free of charge. There is no reason this service cant/shouldnt be paid for as its a growing problem. But all the time they can get people to attend RTA's F.O.C it will not change!

The County Councils and Police hardly have enough funds to empty
the bins and meet their targets on 999 times, let alone find money
to fund RTC deer dispatch courses...

 

[widows son]

To be fair Bob you are actually commenting on what the thread was started for, and it seems it has moved away from the OP. But would you concede that under those circumstances where a beast is being tracked in such dense cover a rifle is a difficult thing to carry or use while working a tracking dog?

Brian at the end of the day it is what suits the person when I lived in germany I carried a pistol on all the shoots notthat I ever used it other than to play with on the range .

My preference is a rifle if and when, I'm called out to a dvc, I'll take the shot gun gives me far more scope in every type of terrain lg or ssg spherical ball or rifle slug personally I don't see the requirement for a pistol doesn't float the boat for me.

 

[Cut+Squirt]

I'm intrigued!

Why do people go out at 2.00am to dispatch a deer free of charge???? .... What drives them???? .... Just interested!

Regards,

Mike.

​

Good question ...
Bit of excitement I suspect, who knows ... Anyone?

 

[mereside]

Good question ...
Bit of excitement I suspect, who knows ... Anyone?

to end the suffering of an animal that could live in agony for some time,or to help someone who turns up on the doorstep in tears as they have just run a deer over and they know that you are involved with deer,atb wayne

 

[jamross65]

Brian at the end of the day it is what suits the person when I lived in germany I carried a pistol on all the shoots notthat I ever used it other than to play with on the range .

My preference is a rifle if and when, I'm called out to a dvc, I'll take the shot gun gives me far more scope in every type of terrain lg or ssg spherical ball or rifle slug personally I don't see the requirement for a pistol doesn't float the boat for me.

OK

just for the record I applied for a .38, nothing fancy, just a small frame compact revolver that would easily fit in a jacket pocket, should the need arise to use it under the described circumstances. When I have been called out before for a roadside job, I take the .22RF!!!! Subsonic hollow points at point blank tend not to exit and easily kill deer.... Of any size...

 

[widows son]

The Deer God has spoken

Ofcourse you stating that makes it right and others opinions are of no significance..

I could state exactly what you have done with guys using rifles not pistols...

If you are trained proficiently as would be expected then I doubt the scenario you speak of would be representative

Correct Terry but as you know yourself, it is ascertaining that level "proficiency" again your correct about people using rifles, I've been their first hand and seen it all to often ,you yourself have had weapons in your charge for many years and many different scenarios will have seen the same things .

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

I think in answer to why some people do it.

Some people are compassionate about deer, some will put it in the food chain so a commercial gain though not legal, some for personal consumption

Some folk thrive on the call out and are excited to attend an RTA.

Sure there are many other reasons but I still cannot see a reason why having a number of tools to humanely despatch a deer cannot be a good thing if competently proficient in their use.