Sako 85 accuracy - poor / help?

The more I think about it, the more I think the above or similar is a likely factor.

The heat generated from the first shot is perhaps causing the stock to touch somewhere. All my other rifles I can get a thin piece of paper between the stock and barrel down as far as the action smoothly, and that's not possible on my 85 even when cold.

hopefully it can quickly be resolved, I'll update once I hear back.
 
If this was just erratic results and poor groups consistently then I would agree
change ammo,

the fact that the rifle produces two points of impact regardless of shooter and or ammunition is the clearest indication of physical interference

I am building a test rig to allow any rifle to be shot out of the stock using the original action screws bolted into a self standing steel frame.
no contact with action except through the two action screws and the recoil lug

instant confirmation of zero interference accuracy.

Biggest issue by far
rusty barrel, shoddy crown, trigger made from a horseshoe, 4x air rifle scope.....
all that can still shoot MOA

introduce a variable pressure or physical interference on the barrel and you can have a brand new match barrel, won't make any difference
 
Things like this are a real bugger. I have four Sako 85's and all shoot sub 0.25 MOA @ 100m off a bipod and rear bag with my own loads. Do not know how they perform with factory stuff as I never use it. I take it that you have checked all the obvious stuff - action screws, barrel float, scope mount screws and so on. BTW, you mentioned that you had your scope mounted in Optilocks. Are they mounted correctly? Have noticed over the years that many people, including supposedly reputable gun shop experts, do not know how to correctly mount the front base. Check this, it's described in the instructions that come with the bases.

The recoil lug on the 85's is a bit "different" I admit but I've never had any reason to doubt its function. No idea if the same type is used on the carbon stocks as I've never seen one. Mine are all walnut or laminate. As i see it, you don't need to mess with this. I know of a bloke in Sweden who treated himself to a Sako 85 Classic in 6.5x55 SE for his 50th birthday. First day at the range it shot like s**t. Being in the business as a bedder and barrel threader he decided that the rifle indeed needed bedding. Didn't take the issue to Sako Sweden. He documented the whole process of how he bedded the recoil plate on a shooting forum. When finished he headed off to the range again. Rifle shot worse than s**t. A long and dirty process between him and Sako Sweden now commenced!

If the check of all the obvious points doesn't resolve your problem then send it back. It's under warranty.

Cheers
 
Just had a similar problem with my Tikka 222. It seems that Tikka recommend torquing the action screws to between 5&6 NM. The actual torque setting should be 3.9nm. If the action screws are over tight the rifle throws rounds all over the place.


Ian

Where did you find these recommendations? As far as I know Sako have never published torque settings. They are never mentioned in the manuals.

Cheers
 
Where did you find these recommendations? As far as I know Sako have never published torque settings. They are never mentioned in the manuals.

Cheers

If you talk face to face with their technical staff they will tell you. I meet them every year. As far as I remember 5-7nm. ASH Germany sells 5nm torque wrenches for the T3 and it seems many (us included) are happy with this value. We recommend our customers to go 5nm.

Bedding will in most cases improve the consistency of a rifle but that will not fix a bad barrel or other issues. One nasty little number is a loose screw that holds top and bottom Optilok mounts. Grouping slowly gets worse.
edi
 
Bedding will in most cases improve the consistency of a rifle but that will not fix a bad barrel or other issues. One nasty little number is a loose screw that holds top and bottom Optilok mounts. Grouping slowly gets worse.
edi

I once had the screw underneath the Optilok mounts come lose. The scope had been set up on the sako 75 before it was issued to me. After using it for a while I started to think there was a problem. I checked all the obvious things, mod, stock screws and the screws on the top of the rings. It took awhile before I discovered that there was a screw below the block
 
Mod, scope and mounts? It's unlikely to be the rifle.

As above

Last time I had a bunch of wild shots it was the Mod. Took that off and it grouped fine. That said my T3 308 throws PPU all over the card but groups OK with Hammer head & Firochi. I now home load Nosla 110g BTs and get sub 20mm bench rest.
 
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Hi GSP,

I also experienced similar accuracy problems with my Sako 85 (.308 hunter, laminate stainless) - the groups looked similar to yours, including the rise in shot placement when hot. It's seriously frustrating when you've dropped £1.5K on a new rifle. I have a S&B 8x56 sitting on Optilock rings and bases, given their good reputation I ruled that out to start. I also got no test fire card (apparently they don't provide them anymore). only a 'Certificate of Accuracy' guarantee or some other such toilet paper.

Here's what I went through to make things better.

When I first got it (new), I wouldn't group within about 10". After trying 4 types of factory, 123gn Sako, 150gn Winchester PP, 150gn Hornady American Whitetail and 150gn PPU, it turned out to be the a faulty sound moderator (forget which make) which wasn't cut right, so the thread didn't meet the crown properly. A strip down clean of the moderator revealed the first baffle was being 'clipped'. Needless to say I wasn't impressed (safety). Moderator off, the groups immediately reduced to about 1-1.5" @ 100m with the 150gn Winchester PP and the Hornady. Funnily enough, the 123gn Sako Hammerhead wouldn't shoot anywhere near as good. Swapped sound moderator for a Tier One Spartan (nice bit of kit but a bit loud) and the rifle held 1-1.5" groups, although I still wasn't happy given the 0.5MOA claim. Of course you should be able to rule out the moderator from the middle group in your picture, everything's consistent whether on of off.

In a (probably unnecessary for a stalking rifle) quest to get better groups, I looked at other things starting with phoning Riflecraft who said it should shoot better, but didn't think it would be the rifle in their experience. When it was new I followed a 'running in' procedure for the barrel of one shot, clean, 2 shots clean etc etc. On their recommendation I bought some of the Boretech Eliminator cleaning fluid from Riflecraft and thorough cleaned the rifle. Good stuff, it doesn't stink and cause wife complaints and you wouldn't believe the crud that came out on the patches, even after many passes of the patch. Just watch that you don't use brass/copper jags as the chemical creates blue/green staining from the copper.

A good cleaning improved the groups to around 1" consistently. I now routinely clean after either (i) 20 shots or (ii) a stalking trip. I also checked all the scope mounts for tightness, as well as the action screws on the bottom of the stock (they were a bit loose, so hand tightened them but perhaps should torque to the 5nm that someone else mentioned?

I've been happy with the rifle ever since, and am sticking to using 150gn Winchester PP or Federal Power/Vital Shok. It still won't shoot quite as well as my mate's Schultz and Larsen Victory in .270win, but that was 2.5x the price. Also, as someone else said, this isn't a heavy barrelled target rifle so I wouldn't expect match accuracy, but certainly 1" groups at 100yds.

To summarise I would do the following in this order:

1) Take off scope and bases, re-tighten and re-fit
2) Shoot 2x 5 shot groups with a short cooling period between shots and a longer one between groups to check if that helps
3) Regularly check your moderator is tight (especially if it is modular as they can come loose independently). Never leave the moderator on after shooting or in storage as it can corrode the crown and ruin the accuracy
4) Really thorough cleaning regime - I recommend some of the Boretech Eliminator (no shares in the company I promise)
5) Check the stock screws
6) Try to stick with whichever ammunition you find shoots best
 
Hi GSP,

I also experienced similar accuracy problems with my Sako 85 (.308 hunter, laminate stainless) - the groups looked similar to yours, including the rise in shot placement when hot. It's seriously frustrating when you've dropped £1.5K on a new rifle. I have a S&B 8x56 sitting on Optilock rings and bases, given their good reputation I ruled that out to start. I also got no test fire card (apparently they don't provide them anymore). only a 'Certificate of Accuracy' guarantee or some other such toilet paper.

Here's what I went through to make things better.

When I first got it (new), I wouldn't group within about 10". After trying 4 types of factory, 123gn Sako, 150gn Winchester PP, 150gn Hornady American Whitetail and 150gn PPU, it turned out to be the a faulty sound moderator (forget which make) which wasn't cut right, so the thread didn't meet the crown properly. A strip down clean of the moderator revealed the first baffle was being 'clipped'. Needless to say I wasn't impressed (safety). Moderator off, the groups immediately reduced to about 1-1.5" @ 100m with the 150gn Winchester PP and the Hornady. Funnily enough, the 123gn Sako Hammerhead wouldn't shoot anywhere near as good. Swapped sound moderator for a Tier One Spartan (nice bit of kit but a bit loud) and the rifle held 1-1.5" groups, although I still wasn't happy given the 0.5MOA claim. Of course you should be able to rule out the moderator from the middle group in your picture, everything's consistent whether on of off.

In a (probably unnecessary for a stalking rifle) quest to get better groups, I looked at other things starting with phoning Riflecraft who said it should shoot better, but didn't think it would be the rifle in their experience. When it was new I followed a 'running in' procedure for the barrel of one shot, clean, 2 shots clean etc etc. On their recommendation I bought some of the Boretech Eliminator cleaning fluid from Riflecraft and thorough cleaned the rifle. Good stuff, it doesn't stink and cause wife complaints and you wouldn't believe the crud that came out on the patches, even after many passes of the patch. Just watch that you don't use brass/copper jags as the chemical creates blue/green staining from the copper.

A good cleaning improved the groups to around 1" consistently. I now routinely clean after either (i) 20 shots or (ii) a stalking trip. I also checked all the scope mounts for tightness, as well as the action screws on the bottom of the stock (they were a bit loose, so hand tightened them but perhaps should torque to the 5nm that someone else mentioned?

I've been happy with the rifle ever since, and am sticking to using 150gn Winchester PP or Federal Power/Vital Shok. It still won't shoot quite as well as my mate's Schultz and Larsen Victory in .270win, but that was 2.5x the price. Also, as someone else said, this isn't a heavy barrelled target rifle so I wouldn't expect match accuracy, but certainly 1" groups at 100yds.

To summarise I would do the following in this order:

1) Take off scope and bases, re-tighten and re-fit
2) Shoot 2x 5 shot groups with a short cooling period between shots and a longer one between groups to check if that helps
3) Regularly check your moderator is tight (especially if it is modular as they can come loose independently). Never leave the moderator on after shooting or in storage as it can corrode the crown and ruin the accuracy
4) Really thorough cleaning regime - I recommend some of the Boretech Eliminator (no shares in the company I promise)
5) Check the stock screws
6) Try to stick with whichever ammunition you find shoots best

Thanks, I've done pretty much all of this with no impact. I've agreed for it to go back so will be taking it into the supplying dealer tomorrow.
 
When I bought my SAKO 85 new it wouldn't group using 150g but would group well with SAKO 123g all day long so that's all I use
 
Just been packing it all up and found a Superhamerhead 180gr info card in the box.

Ive not tried anything that heavy, but now wonder whether that is what they tested it with.
 
I found a couple of people on other forums saying that their Sakos preferred heavier ammunition- the 85 is a 1/11 twist in .308, worth a try with 180gr. I've not personally tried 180gn through mine but each rifle is different...
 
I found a couple of people on other forums saying that their Sakos preferred heavier ammunition- the 85 is a 1/11 twist in .308, worth a try with 180gr. I've not personally tried 180gn through mine but each rifle is different...

i can't find anywhere within 100 miles that lists it as available
 
I've just got some GECO 165's to try out in my 85 tomorrow, I know they also do a 170gr. I will let you know how I get on with them.

Today's Result, definite improvement with the heavier bullet

range 034.webp HORNADY 150 gr @ 100m'srange 033.webp GECO 165 gr @100m's
 
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That's it gone to GMK for review :-(

Included target examples with explanations of them being shot by different people and with and without the moderator.

Included details of the different scopes I tried to rule out that.

Included details of all cartridge options tried including Winchester, federal, and Sakos own cartridges in 123 game head, 150 superhammerhead and 168gr race head

All variables tried, im fairly convinced it's something to do with first shot heat causing the barrel to deviate and contact the stock. But it's two months old and I don't want to be the one fiddling about fixing that.

Will provide and update when I hear back.
 
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