Sauer out the box accuracy (not )

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My thought is that the rifle shot off bags at 100 yards produced 2 1/2 inch group. In field conditions you could be leaning on a fence post, shooting off sticks or in a kneeling position at 100 yards, you can put an inch to two inch user error into to the mix and you end up with 4 inch group on a live quarry.
My 25-06 is under load development at the moment and best groups I've got is 1 inch, but I'm not happy with this. If I get to 1/2 inch ill then be happy. If I'm going to put my crosshairs on live quarry I want to be sure it's going to be a clean kill.
I think sauer ( garlands) attitude is absoulte bo.....ks to except this grouping.
 
Glad my last rifle cost £250 , not wishing to sound stupid but he has checked the scope is ok.
 
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Factory rifles...bit like a lucky bag.
If one wants a reliable and accurate rifle one is better off with a custom job.
Why would anyone pay so much money for a rifle fitted with a cheap hammer forged barrel.
Then again on the continent shots over 100yds don't happen often and 2.5" are fine. If not
they just get a larger calibre. (my verdict after following German forums for about a year now)
edi
 
My preference would be to take the rifle back and if the rifle maker says the two and a half grouping is fine, give it back to them.
Then find a barrel and action that shoots straight, then have a decent piece of wood installed.

At the least you will have a tidy rifle that groups well, you can buy a sako 85 and mounts etc for a third of that price with reasonable wood


Atb

Phil
 
ejg said:
Factory rifles...bit like a lucky bag.
If one wants a reliable and accurate rifle one is better off with a custom job.
Why would anyone pay so much money for a rifle fitted with a cheap hammer forged barrel.
Then again on the continent shots over 100yds don't happen often and 2.5" are fine. If not
they just get a larger calibre. (my verdict after following German forums for about a year now)
edi
Click to expand...


Sorry but I'd disagree - all my rifles have been factory rifles and I've never had a bad one yet! They have all shot pretty fantastic groups, and that's American, German, Czech, British....

and most custom rifles have fantastic components but don't have the aesthetics of a high grade sauer/blaser/beretta etc...

Regards,
​gixer
 
Gixer, most factory rifles have barrels worth around or less than 100 euro. That is how good a lot of them shoot.
Visit custom rifle builders and see how many people drop off there non performing factory rifles, also Blasers.
I have one rifle (a T3) left with a factory barrel and can't wait to get it re-barrelled.
Most important factor on a rifle is the barrel, after that action stock fit, then stock, then action.
I have had a few rifles that shot good groups every now and then with their factory barrels but they
were never as consistent as custom barrels. There is also a little issue here of a very expensive rifle not shooting
well, we are not talking a cheap 600 quid injection moulded plastic stocked rifle.
edi
 
Taff said:
Glad my last rifle cost £250 , not wishing to sound stupid but he has checked the scope is ok.
Click to expand...

Ammo is only one variable, bullet weight and twist rate need to be matched on that front - don't expect a normal sporting rifle to stabilise 105gn bullets for example which need 1:8 twist to work - are the holes the bullets make in the target round or slightly egg shaped? - if not 100% round then bullet may not be stabilising.

Other considerations for me would be:

1) are all stock bolts done up tight? - don't assume they are, tighten them and see (you might want to strip the action from the stock to check there's no foreign material between the two as another poster said about seeds),

2) are scope mounts secure? - check them,

3) are the rings tight on the scope?

4) as Taff says, is scope a known 'good one'? - if you have another scope that you know is good swap them around and see if the rifle shoots better, if the rifle with the scope off the Sauer then shoots badly then you know it's the scope,

5) does it have a moderator fitted? - if so try shooting it without and see if the group gets better (in which case group size suggests the bullets are hitting the moderator or it is lose on the barrel).

At a guess something is moving, pretty near all rifles (including a VERY well used 222 I own which has got significant pitting in the last 2 inches of the barrel) should shoot at worst around 1 - 1 1/2 " groups off a bench with a variety of ammo.

Forget manufacturers warranty, sale of goods act is what you need to relate back to the seller, that and a reference to local trading standards! - ask for a replacement rifle, they may say you have to keep the stock but should at least offer you a new barrelled action (pain in the backside getting the variation for one for one though...)

Of course if it has such a nice piece of wood get it deactivated and hang it on the wall to admire!

Good luck and don't take 2 1/2" as being OK - more like a pattern than a group...
 
ejg said:
Gixer, most factory rifles have barrels worth around or less than 100 euro. That is how good a lot of them shoot.
Visit custom rifle builders and see how many people drop off there non performing factory rifles, also Blasers.
I have one rifle (a T3) left with a factory barrel and can't wait to get it re-barrelled.
Most important factor on a rifle is the barrel, after that action stock fit, then stock, then action.
I have had a few rifles that shot good groups every now and then with their factory barrels but they
were never as consistent as custom barrels. There is also a little issue here of a very expensive rifle not shooting
well, we are not talking a cheap 600 quid injection moulded plastic stocked rifle.
edi
Click to expand...

ejg I agree that most barrels are cheap I onece read that Remington barrels cost less than $20 to produce ( I have two and they shoot an 1" or less) so they don't have to be expensive to shoot well.
But don't you think we pay too much for after market barrels in the UK, they are a lot cheaper in the US.
I also have a rifle with a Border button barrel and although it's an accurate rifle( AIAE). So is my Sauer.
 
Donkey Basher said:
Ammo is only one variable, bullet weight and twist rate need to be matched on that front - don't expect a normal sporting rifle to stabilise 105gn bullets for example which need 1:8 twist to work - are the holes the bullets make in the target round or slightly egg shaped? - if not 100% round then bullet may not be stabilising.

Other considerations for me would be:

1) are all stock bolts done up tight? - don't assume they are, tighten them and see (you might want to strip the action from the stock to check there's no foreign material between the two as another poster said about seeds),

2) are scope mounts secure? - check them,

3) are the rings tight on the scope?

4) as Taff says, is scope a known 'good one'? - if you have another scope that you know is good swap them around and see if the rifle shoots better, if the rifle with the scope off the Sauer then shoots badly then you know it's the scope,

5) does it have a moderator fitted? - if so try shooting it without and see if the group gets better (in which case group size suggests the bullets are hitting the moderator or it is lose on the barrel).

At a guess something is moving, pretty near all rifles (including a VERY well used 222 I own which has got significant pitting in the last 2 inches of the barrel) should shoot at worst around 1 - 1 1/2 " groups off a bench with a variety of ammo.

Forget manufacturers warranty, sale of goods act is what you need to relate back to the seller, that and a reference to local trading standards! - ask for a replacement rifle, they may say you have to keep the stock but should at least offer you a new barrelled action (pain in the backside getting the variation for one for one though...)

Of course if it has such a nice piece of wood get it deactivated and hang it on the wall to admire!

Good luck and don't take 2 1/2" as being OK - more like a pattern than a group...
Click to expand...
The scope mounts was fitted by garlands and it has had 2 night force, a z4i, and now has a brand new z6i on it
 
I would bypass garlands & make sauer aware of the problem ASAP if it isn't resolved to his satisfaction by garlands then go straight to sauer who are then already aware of the problem, but 2 1/2" group is not acceptable, there's been some good advice given here including Get A Blaser, lol
 
CWMMAN3738 said:
I would bypass garlands & make sauer aware of the problem ASAP if it isn't resolved to his satisfaction by garlands then go straight to sauer who are then already aware of the problem, but 2 1/2" group is not acceptable, there's been some good advice given here including Get A Blaser, lol
Click to expand...
He shoots tikka super varmint in his other rifles and just fancied some more traditional for stalking. Both tikkas shoot 1/2 inch groups, At third of the price. Should have had one built off an old action and stock with new top barrel, bedded and blue printed. He would have had a serious piece of kit.
​
 
bri2506 said:
A friend has just taken charge of a sauer 243, with quick release mounting system developed by sauer for a sauer. This pretty setup has cost him in the ball park of £6500.
He has been playing around with different rounds and the best grouping gained was 3 inch, mainy 3 together and a couple of flyers out of 5 shot groups. No order as in the barrel heating up just random combinations.
So after speaking to sauer they confirmed there had a problem with the mounting system he then booked an appointment and today was the day of reckoning..........

After a long drive down and several different rounds tested by sauer in bench rest conditions they produced their test results. A 2 1/2 inch group............
According to sauer this more than acceptable group?

He owns quite a few rifles tikka, x bolts, Cz, all these rifles with factory ammo with a bit of tinkering have produced 3/4 to an inch groups.
i have a semi custom and a standard sako and anshutz but load my own but all these group less than 3/4 inch with factory ammo. All my rifles wouldn't cost the same as a his sauer.


The question I'm asking is, are we expecting too much from this rifle.

​Cause I think I'd rather own the cheapest 40 quid secondhand battered unloved piece of s..t that shoots 3/4 inch all day than spend £6500 on a pretty lovely crafted piece of engineering than put in to field conditions you would be luck to hit deer at 50 yards in the vitals.
Click to expand...

In the far off days when the interweb existed only in someones imagination you could see a manufacturer / importer might try to get away with this sort of shoddy service and sub standard product performance ,now we have the interweb and forums such as this where a products reputation and therefore future sales are at stake such **** poor back up (for what is an expensive rifle) beggars belief , what a bunch of self abusers .
 
A friend of mine has a 202 stutzen that wouldn't group worth beans at 100yds. A little bit of stock relieving work fixed it.
We have shot 10mm groups with that stutzen but it does go off every now and then. On that rifle the barrel is probably good
but the stock is in motion.
edi
 
bri2506 said:
He shoots tikka super varmint in his other rifles and just fancied some more traditional for stalking. Both tikkas shoot 1/2 inch groups, At third of the price. Should have had one built off an old action and stock with new top barrel, bedded and blue printed. He would have had a serious piece of kit.
​
Click to expand...

​Or just used a tikka t3 action and barrel and just re-stocked it in some fancy wood, would have had a nice looking rifle then that at least shot useable groups!
 
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