schweiss-uk Uk tracking training club

[barongcw]

The insurance would be a problem if, lets just say that the BDS started a deer dog regester or one of the other organizations, you would need some form of third party cover incase you or your dog should have a proplem, also some sort of training would be needed by them to prove you and dog are up to it.

Tony

Have started to investigate the insurance angle.

Should we in the meantime canvass people's interest?

I propose the following but am certainly waiting/hoping for suggestions:

Anybody can become a supporter member of the club
Before one becomes a full member with voting rights both the member and his hound will have completed a track judged by experienced continental judges.
For this reason at the beginning only hounds from acknowledged tracking races with papers can be admitted.
The track is based as much as possible on reality. It will be at least 1 KM long laid with a tracking shoes and not more than 100g blood and thus with substantial distances without any blood at all. It will also cross a stream as well as a road.
No "chase"/hetze at the end for now. Too difficult to arrange.
The hound will have to "resit" the exam every three years.

What do you think?

Can you let me have Kim's email?

 

[Roedinator]

hi tony as you say was a shame it didnt get going there were so good people involved
kim and his dogs were certainly the muts nuts
regards pete .

 

[cookingfat]

Not sure about the bit that says only recognized tracking breeds, when all i have is two labs, which i might add are as good if not better then most of the dogs trailing on Sunday.
The club is a good idea but i think it needs to be attatched to one of the big organizations and maybe then a dog register can be set up, the register is a long way off at the moment but i have been trying for three years now and will probably still be banging me head three years on.
When you think that the person who is at the top of the tree for training deer dogs
within the bds told me and a class that laying trails to train a dog to track was a load of rubbish, what chance have we got!

Tony

 

[Orion]

Not sure about the bit that says only recognized tracking breeds, when all i have is two labs, which i might add are as good if not better then most of the dogs trailing on Sunday.

Yes, George left me a bit there. No arguement from me about the need for tests/competency but no reason to exclude 'non-specialist' breeds IMO - isn't it a fact that labs outnumber other breeds on the Danish Register?

The club is a good idea but i think it needs to be attatched to one of the big organizations and maybe then a dog register can be set up, the register is a long way off at the moment but i have been trying for three years now and will probably still be banging me head three years on.

I'm not sure that's the best way forward Tony. Tag it on to one of the existing orgs and you either have people already biased against you for pre-existing reasons, it becomes or is perceived to be another moneyspinner, or you can't achieve credibilty with outside orgs which might not have a shooting bias. Independence is far better IMO.

When you think that the person who is at the top of the tree for training deer dogs
within the bds told me and a class that laying trails to train a dog to track was a load of rubbish, what chance have we got!

Nuff said! What better reason to tread our own path?

 

[Sikashooter]

I wouild think the best way to go is to include every one and there dogs the more you get the beter. Baron you sound very biased against other breeds except your own. Dont we have any Judges from this country that can assess a dogs abuilty to track.
Maybe you are against other breeds because they might show your chosen breed up. I have seen some might fine dogs over the years that would give any tracking dog a run for it money.

 

[barongcw]

Not sure about the bit that says only recognized tracking breeds, when all i have is two labs, which i might add are as good if not better then most of the dogs trailing on Sunday.
The club is a good idea but i think it needs to be attatched to one of the big organizations and maybe then a dog register can be set up, the register is a long way off at the moment but i have been trying for three years now and will probably still be banging me head three years on.
When you think that the person who is at the top of the tree for training deer dogs
within the bds told me and a class that laying trails to train a dog to track was a load of rubbish, what chance have we got!

Tony

We should ask Kim but I was told that continental judges can only judge events from recognised tracking breeds. If that is wrong no problem in opening it up.

You provide your own answer. The BDS's heart is not in it. BASC as usual does it own thing. If we set up by ourselves we can decide what we want to do. The admin is not too much. We do not run a nursery so people have to train at home and only come to show once every three years their hound is up to scratch. Membership could be free. If you enter "the trial it will cost you £ 50 but if you pass you get your money refunded.
If on top of that we offer a cheque for £ 500 for the best performing hound on these tracks each year we might get some people who really know what it is all about.
Somebody else said that HPR's should be allowed as well. I do not mind but do not want to be swamped by too many people. Kim will have to tell us what is allowed and what not.

I enjoyed Sunday and you were kind enough to lay out an older track for us but what I would like to do is a 24 old track without any blood, 1 KM or a 48 hour track with 100 ml.
As Kim said we are about 30 years behind Denmark so I saw Sunday as advanced beginners, I enjoyed it as I am one of them!

 

[barongcw]

If we have too many people for starters we will never get off the ground. If we have a dozen or so each year that is manageable.
As I said above I was told by continental judges that they were restricted to judging certain breeds. I want the best dog to win and am not too concerned what the breed is. If somebody beats me I'll just have to do better next time and on top of that my hound is nearly 8 and her successor is not yet born.
I do not know of any judges in the UK and the advantage of foreign judges is that they are totally independant and know the continental rules.
All the posts up till now indicate that they want other breeds included so take that as noted subject to Kim.

 

[Jagare]

The Swedish judges can judge any breed of dog. Why have a test that is elite class that would only be open to a couple of dogs in the UK. why not have a more sensible test. 24hours, 1km, 2dl blood with 4 stretchs of 25mtrs without blood . £500 pounds, can i join? I'll drive down with my dog for a crack at £500.
I'm all for tests but they are not the be all of haveing a good tracking dog.
Will this Club only be open to Hanovarians, Bavarians and Alpenlandischer dachbracke ?

 

[Orion]

Will this Club only be open to Hanovarians, Bavarians and Alpenlandischer dachbracke ?

As long as they keep those Kopovs out.

 

[barongcw]

The Swedish judges can judge any breed of dog. Why have a test that is elite class that would only be open to a couple of dogs in the UK. why not have a more sensible test. 24hours, 1km, 2dl blood with 4 stretchs of 25mtrs without blood . £500 pounds, can i join? I'll drive down with my dog for a crack at £500.
I'm all for tests but they are not the be all of haveing a good tracking dog.
Will this Club only be open to Hanovarians, Bavarians and Alpenlandischer dachbracke ?

Nothing decided as yet on the breeds or on anything else. What we should avoid in my view is too many people for starters that we cannot handle. Just by making the test very difficult indeed we should weed out the wheat from the chaff. After all each participant will pay £ 50 entrance fee, or should we make it more? Participants only get their money back when they pass the test. Hope not too many do as the money will be needed to pay some keen man to lay out a lot of 1KM tracks!

I would like to see a Kopov at work as I have never seen one.

It was my intention to ask Rudi what kind of track he recommends, something along the line of what you write but may be longer streches with no blood like in real life. I am no judge so the experts have to decide.

All the above is just me throwing out ideas nothing more as yet.

Am very encouraged that you will come all the way. That bodes well for the idea.

 

[Jager Meister]

Hi Mark great idea can you pm me with up to date info please

 

[Sikashooter]

£50 To enter and £500 pounds if you win thats got to be atleast 10 contestant,s (Not much left for the judges or the track layers. No blood for long stretches Or just tracking shoes.Can i ask Baron are you a deer stalker or are you just interested in tracking dogs ?. If you put in a large cash prize you take away alot of the fun eliment.If you put in a large entrance fee you will exclude some very good dogs. These dogs would then be classed as no good and only the rich owner of a tracking dog would get the cudos and class his average dog as the best.
JUST A THOUGHT

 

[Orion]

Hi Mark great idea can you pm me with up to date info please

Think you're a bit out of synch with the thread.

 

[stone]

George
my out take on it all is this will fail if you are only going to go along with recognised continetal tracking dogs
we are in the UK
the lab has prooved it's worth and more , here we also hav the springer, border and lurcher etc
and they also hav prooved beyond doubt their abitity
there are also many other breeds that fill the slot

yes I do agree Kim and Rudi know their game but the system has to work in the uk
so we hav to work with the criteria we are faced with not what the continent desires
a tracking test has to test not just the dog but also the handler as it is a team effort
breed of dog is not an issuse but ability is
recongition is easy if word of mouth is to be counted for and that is what we strive for
to be recognised
I do like the Idea as which is what we spoke about but it has to suit the UK needs

 

[barongcw]

£50 To enter and £500 pounds if you win thats got to be atleast 10 contestant,s (Not much left for the judges or the track layers. No blood for long stretches Or just tracking shoes.Can i ask Baron are you a deer stalker or are you just interested in tracking dogs ?. If you put in a large cash prize you take away alot of the fun eliment.If you put in a large entrance fee you will exclude some very good dogs. These dogs would then be classed as no good and only the rich owner of a tracking dog would get the cudos and class his average dog as the best.
JUST A THOUGHT

But a good one.

I have been shooting deer for over 40 years and am a keen amateur tracker.

The normal entry fee for a training/practice day is about £ 50. Hence that figure. The £ 500 is specifically aimed to make it wothwhile to train extensively for this. In my view average dogs have very little chance of completing, let alone winning.
What I am really aiming for is tempting the very best trackers to participate. If they complete the course their entry fee is refunded; if they win they gone home not only with the kudos with also with some cash. All succesful participants have a free day paid for by the not succesful ones. Is that not a good way to motivate you?

Yes, it will cost some money, few things one likes in life are free.

 

[jimmy milnes]

well ill stick my head up above the trench here as i was very interested in this, but to be honest with the way its sounding like people want it to go aint what im after, sounds to me like it could very easily end up putting a lot of people off through "exclusivity"

ive a GSP so that sounds like im out of the pic
she's not very experienced "but would love to have the backing of a club to help me develop here ability"
im not into competitions "but would like to see clubs in uk to promote the tracking dog work"

sounds more like a register with a 3yr enterance exam than a club

all the best and i hope things work out
kind regards
jimmy

 

[cookingfat]

We should ask Kim but I was told that continental judges can only judge events from recognised tracking breeds. If that is wrong no problem in opening it up.

You provide your own answer. The BDS's heart is not in it. BASC as usual does it own thing. If we set up by ourselves we can decide what we want to do. The admin is not too much. We do not run a nursery so people have to train at home and only come to show once every three years their hound is up to scratch. Membership could be free. If you enter "the trial it will cost you £ 50 but if you pass you get your money refunded.
If on top of that we offer a cheque for £ 500 for the best performing hound on these tracks each year we might get some people who really know what it is all about.
Somebody else said that HPR's should be allowed as well. I do not mind but do not want to be swamped by too many people. Kim will have to tell us what is allowed and what not.

I enjoyed Sunday and you were kind enough to lay out an older track for us but what I would like to do is a 24 old track without any blood, 1 KM or a 48 hour track with 100 ml.
As Kim said we are about 30 years behind Denmark so I saw Sunday as advanced beginners, I enjoyed it as I am one of them!

I think Kim would very upset if there where no labs to judge, as Orion says the biggest part of the danish register are made up of labs.

 

[barongcw]

George
my out take on it all is this will fail if you are only going to go along with recognised continetal tracking dogs
we are in the UK
the lab has prooved it's worth and more , here we also hav the springer, border and lurcher etc
and they also hav prooved beyond doubt their abitity
there are also many other breeds that fill the slot

yes I do agree Kim and Rudi know their game but the system has to work in the uk
so we hav to work with the criteria we are faced with not what the continent desires
a tracking test has to test not just the dog but also the handler as it is a team effort
breed of dog is not an issuse but ability is
recongition is easy if word of mouth is to be counted for and that is what we strive for
to be recognised
I do like the Idea as which is what we spoke about but it has to suit the UK needs

Virtually every post on this says non tracking breeds should participate. Am happy with that so let us drop my idea of tracking breeds only.
Totally agree that tracking is a team effort. But it gets a little too theoretical to make the handler pass a test like the did with me in Germany so I want to concentrate on the dog in this test..

My ideal would be 10-15 participants of which 5 or so complete but may be I underestimate UK dogs.

 

[barongcw]

well ill stick my head up above the trench here as i was very interested in this, but to be honest with the way its sounding like people want it to go aint what im after, sounds to me like it could very easily end up putting a lot of people off through "exclusivity"

ive a GSP so that sounds like im out of the pic
she's not very experienced "but would love to have the backing of a club to help me develop here ability"
im not into competitions "but would like to see clubs in uk to promote the tracking dog work"

sounds more like a register with a 3yr enterance exam than a club

all the best and i hope things work out
kind regards
jimmy

This idea of mine is definitively not as part of training but a very cult test for a fully trained dogs. Do not know where you live but if I can help you with your training send me a pm. Or even better follow one of the dog4deer courses of the NGO.

 

[jimmy milnes]

hi
many thanks for the offer its very kind of you although im quite a way from you as im in west yorkshire, i did attend your NGO course earlier this year at calton moor and enjoyed it very much, how ever a course every now and then is all well and good but i feel if we are to come up to speed in this area we need a club to organise training days etc not just a register of people with top notch dogs "nurture the young as there are the future"