Scotland

[Caberhill]

TOM D Sounds like your talking of marlodge http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/49915-Scotland/page2

Gazza or living off the state.

http://www.nnr-scotland.org.uk/creag-meagaidh/management/a-deer-way-forward/

Could be here and you can go see for yourself...

 

[bewsher500]

There has been loads of research into this, I am not talking about Sitka monoculture BTW this is about the boreal forest which once covered scotland, small pockets of it are still found on islands and other areas that have managed to remain ungrazed. It consists mainly of birch and pineand juniper, although other natives such as beech, ash and oak are also found in lower lying areas. It has been lost due to human forces, felling, grazing and the loss of the wolf.

There is an estate somewhere up north where they drastically reduced deer numbers and found that young trees appeared almost immediately.... thats all it takes, a few veteran trees to provide the seed, reduce the deer numbers and nature does the rest.

Danny Green Photography : Loughborough Leicestershire - Boreal Forests Glen Affric Scotland

Think you have been reading too much Walter Scott.
Not many land owners have either the land or money to allow natural boreal forest regeneration without the supporting sporting rights (and shootable wildlife) that go(es) with it and supports the estate.

It is no surprise than one of the most well publicised and known is within the bounds of Balmoral.
There simply isnt enough appetite from land owners, money from the National Parks or protection from the Habitats Directive for these areas to expand

You are talking about natural forest that exists in such a low %age of its original state and such a low acreage in its current state that the "national" deer population can not be the issue as 90% of the deer in Scotland have never seen it!


out of interest are you in favour of reintroduction of wolves?

 

[Caberhill]

You are talking about natural forest that exists in such a low %age of its original state and such a low acreage in its current state that the "national" deer population can not be the issue as 90% of the deer in Scotland have never seen it!out of interest are you in favour of reintroduction of wolves?

That's a redicoulous statement. It's like saying man is not responsible for global warming as the majority of man kind has never seen the polar ice caps melting...

P.S. Wolves is a pretty bad idea

 

[Tamus]

That's a redicoulous statement. It's like saying man is not responsible for global warming as the majority of man kind has never seen the polar ice caps melting...

P.S. Wolves is a pretty bad idea

Gosh!

Is MAN responsible for the end of the ice age?????.... wow! shock"!!! Can this be so?

And... Wolves is a pretty good idea too, as the price of food is just wayyy too cheap.....Would this maybe also bring about some reduction in numbers of the ski-pants and telescopic pole brigade... meandering, thoughtlessly and (with their pooches) often quite destructively around land they don't own, manage or put any effort into maintaining?

The Roe population seems to be exploding round about here though... Personally, I think Gazza must be farming them on the nearby X-mas tree plantations and hardly shoots any at all.... but, of course, I may be wrong.

 

[Xboltdave]

Are we in Scotland to hungry do we shoot to many deer with out thinking of what might be. I have been speaking to 4 different guides all English and living in Scotland all think we dont see the big picture up here and just shoot every thing we see and only the older chaps at retrial age seem to calm down abit.

To many english coming up here and thinking they can dictate!

 

[Caberhill]

Gosh!

Is MAN responsible for the end of the ice age?????.... wow! shock"!!! Can this be so?

And... Wolves is a pretty good idea too, as the price of food is just wayyy too cheap.....Would this maybe also bring about some reduction in numbers of the ski-pants and telescopic pole brigade... meandering, thoughtlessly and (with their pooches) often quite destructively around land they don't own, manage or put any effort into maintaining?

The Roe population seems to be exploding round about here though... Personally, I think Gazza must be farming them on the nearby X-mas tree plantations and hardly shoots any at all.... but, of course, I may be wrong.

touchet

 

[redandroe]

http://www.nnr-scotland.org.uk/creag-meagaidh/management/a-deer-way-forward/

Could be here and you can go see for yourself...

This was one of the areas I was reflecting on earlier. They also cull more animals because the females weights are up and can reproduce better due to their body condition. This is another plus for maintaining good culls

 

[Tommo]

Are we in Scotland to hungry do we shoot to many deer with out thinking of what might be. I have been speaking to 4 different guides all English and living in Scotland all think we dont see the big picture up here and just shoot every thing we see and only the older chaps at retrial age seem to calm down abit.

Sounds to me at 11pm 6P you were ****ed and in charge of a PC again!

T

 

[Tom D]

Think you have been reading too much Walter Scott.
Not many land owners have either the land or money to allow natural boreal forest regeneration without the supporting sporting rights (and shootable wildlife) that go(es) with it and supports the estate.

It is no surprise than one of the most well publicised and known is within the bounds of Balmoral.
There simply isnt enough appetite from land owners, money from the National Parks or protection from the Habitats Directive for these areas to expand

You are talking about natural forest that exists in such a low %age of its original state and such a low acreage in its current state that the "national" deer population can not be the issue as 90% of the deer in Scotland have never seen it!


out of interest are you in favour of reintroduction of wolves?

There is no reason why a well managed estate can't do both, keep deer at sensible levels, allow some woodland regeneration, leaving a better environment for the deer. Why do you think that the Highland reds are so small? Its not just the climate, they have little shelter and are forced to move around to find it according to the local weather patterns. in wooded areas they retreat to deeper cover when the weather is bad. All this extra roaming plus extra metabolism required to keep warm results in a smaller beast. This is why beef farmers bring the cattle in at this time of year, it would be cheaper to leave them out and feed them in the field, but they loose weight and condition that way. On a foul day on the hill walking just a few yards into woodland makes a massive difference to the windchill, try it!
A good forest is the equivalent of a big shed.

I am not in favour if introducing wolves BTW, sadly the highlands are too small and overpopulated for that.

 

[bewsher500]

That's a redicoulous statement. It's like saying man is not responsible for global warming as the majority of man kind has never seen the polar ice caps melting...

P.S. Wolves is a pretty bad idea

think you missing my point.
individual deer can't impact regeneration of a particular forest unless they are in it!!

man on the other hand has the ability to impact a much bigger ecosystem that we may not even know exists

 

[roedeerred]

Sounds to me at 11pm 6P you were ****ed and in charge of a PC again!

T

I think your right I have noticed before quite a few posts put on late are quite provative

 

[somerled333]

Deer numbers in certain parts are getting very low, I don't think a big cull would help tree's and such like. I have been studying deer and grazing and tree's for some time, a lot of the country has been destroyed by sheep and man too plus the deer, its a little bit of everything, Iam trying to have deer and tree's so far its not working so well as for the tree's to grow you need to hammer the deer, I hate fences but they do grow trees. I feel generally the people who make decisions on the future of our natural habitat and wildlife are not doing a good job and it should be the little person with his own small area land or fram to make the decision on what happens.

 

[6pointer]

Provocative roedeerred are you kidding Tommo just cant understand scotch lol. Four pages on and its still running the facts are here to be seen most guides up here are English most people working in the Scottish deer industry are English. My feeling is the natural resource we have is being plundered just like the oil. Now that's a provocative post

 

[scotspine]

what "natural" forest?!
Do you mean the closely packed monoculture the FC calls a forest?
The one that is so toxic the no undergrowth can survive?
The one that is so dense that very little can move through it?

the forests we have could be any more unnatural if they were bamboo!

Sheep numbers have dropped because we have allowed supermarkets to monopolise an industry and buy lambs at £40 at the mart and bang them out at £14.99/kg 10 miles down the road!

please tell me where this hoard of rampaging deer is hammering mixed and natural coniferous (or even broadleaf for that matter) forest?

I could supply a list a mile long! A significant number of the ancient woodland (SSSI and SAC status) are suffering from overgrazing. Given their wide distribution there is the potential to ruin deer herds if shooting is seen as the only solution. That's why I like fences. Stick 'em up and zap every deer inside untill the trees are 6 foot tall.

 

[Gazza]

Are we in Scotland to hungry do we shoot to many deer with out thinking of what might be. I have been speaking to 4 different guides all English and living in Scotland all think we dont see the big picture up here and just shoot every thing we see and only the older chaps at retrial age seem to calm down abit.

Just read through your post again 6p. Like you I know of a few English guides based in Scotland and English lease holders of Scottish ground. What I find strange is that the 4 you were speaking to "all think we (presumably us Scots) don't see the big picture up here and just shoot everything we see". What exatly do the clients of these guides shoot? Do their clients contribute to shooting everything they see. I have no probelm with our English neighbours comin up here, spending cash, geting bitten with midges etc but to state that us Scots shoot too many of the deer in our country is a bit much. Typical English - Scotland is a buden on the finances of the UK but the minute there is a prospect of us going it alone they want us to stay. Wonder why?? Your not shooting your deer correctly. Move over till we shoot them.

 

[6pointer]

They suggested we shoot the ground out while they keep the ground at high numbers which keeps the clients happy keeps the money rolling in and helps with the economy but its not to bad two of them work in fife.

 

[Dama]

I get farmers moaning soon as they see 3 4 roe deer in one field. ?

34 deer in one field! They might have a point...

 

[Deer Assassin]

34 deer in one field! They might have a point...

You jest Dama, but it happens up here - honest!