Selling Venison?

[2130martin]

If anyone is following this and is interested - I had the head of EH come round this evening to do my inspection.

Plan A - Carcasses in fur to AGHE - No issues with my garage, was not fussed at all - no paperwork required other than cull record allowing traceability, all I have to do is add 2 columns to my cull register, tag number and where sold to/date.

Plan B - Processed carcass, skinned and jointed down, vacuum packed and sold to pubs/restaurants - Not in the garage. Too much other stuff in there that could contaminate, and has a carpet on the floor that would need to be changed, plus no running water/waste. This was a bit disappointing, but as we sat down in my kitchen to chat other things through, he noticed my stainless table would fit in my kitchen and that is already a 'food room' - so, much to Mrs B's dislike, carcass prep for sale will be done in my kitchen. Again, no more paperwork required and no mention of risk assesments/HACCP etc, just a record breaking down the cuts so they can be traced. Interestingly, a date is required on anything vac packed as it only has a shelf life of 10 days.

No more visits, a questionnaire to check nothing else has changed in 3 years time and I can now sell vension, rabbits, hares, pheasants etc to AGHEs and pubs/restaurants.

It may be different in other areas, but in North Kesteven that is how it is and I hope the above helps others to go through with it, had I have known that years ago I would have done it then - as those pesky animals would say - SIMPLES!

Do you have small game hygiene certificate as well as large game?

 

[karlbird]

Ah no, good point - I forgot DSC1 only covers large game (madness!) - he didn't mention that but said I could sell any game, I guess it's not his bag to authorise me to do that without a qual though? Will look in to getting one.

 

[stratts]

How much do you get for a prepared rabbit mate?

Just curious as I get £1 each frozen guts in shot any old how from a local zoo who feed them to their large cats and vultures. If say you only get a couple of quid by the time you've done all the work, paid for vac bags, electricity, etc, you may be able to find somewhere the same up there who would take them whole!

They also pay a tenner per muntjac whole too!!

Stratts

 

[sauer]

Did you environmental health guy mention the rules or advise on selling frozen ?
You mention 10 days shelf life & labels to be dated , wondering regarding frozen sales & timescales

Paul

 

[karlbird]

Stratts - no idea ref rabbits only sold them in fur before - I wouldn't bother dressing them as you say, too much hassle.. I can get £5/hare skinned which isn't so bad.

Paul - I didn't ask I am afraid. He seemed most concerned about unfrozen vacuum sealed meat due to a certain type of bacteria (I can't remember the name, but attacks meat after 10 days without air)

 

[devon deer stalker]

As i said before, you need to contact your local trading standards, just like the EHO they are helpful, but get your labeling wrong and you open yourself up to some big fines, they will test your scales to make sure they are accurate.
Mine were out, but within tolerances, but to the benefit of the consumer.
They can also advise on shelf life, but this can be open to a little interpretation.
Cheers
Richard

 

[Cris]

Ah no, good point - I forgot DSC1 only covers large game (madness!) - he didn't mention that but said I could sell any game, I guess it's not his bag to authorise me to do that without a qual though? Will look in to getting one.

If you do the NGO GMH course it will cover you for both large and small.
DSC is by definition only for large game i.e deer.

 

[Ben1987]

Had the council chap round yesterday, garage is fine for skinning, fridge although not ideal for chilling as they need to be quartered to fit in will do the job until I can afford/find/steal/shoot enough to justify a bigger fridge, chopping up in the kitchen is fine, wooden table isn't idea but with an oil/plastic table cloth it's fine, my freezer is fine although again if I was shooting game in any serious quantity then a higher capacity freezer is the name of the game. All signed off bar a HACAAP which he's going to try and find me a game specific one rather than a generic catering one. Mentioned traceability as to who, when and where it goes and quantities etc. He'd already advised I do a supplementary food hygiene cert (which I did for £15 online one lunch time). Filled in the forms and I'm registered. Easy peasy.

 

[devon deer stalker]

For those of you who supply game to Kellys in Copplestone, Devon, they sent out a letter today requesting full details of you, the supplier, and they will register you with the the local council, in my case Mid Devon District Council.
No problem as i registered years ago.
Cheers
Richard

 

[Ray7756]

This has been a great thread, as I now know I can Legaly sell my surplus venison as long as I register with my LA as a food business and obviousely follow and maintain the hygene standards

Karlbird many thanks for getting this going

Cheers
Ray

 

[Cris]

I just wonder how widely this known. Must be allot of stalkers out there selling thinking they are covered just by having DSC1. I registered weeks ago but not heard anything more.

 

[Ray7756]

I just wonder how widely this known. Must be allot of stalkers out there selling thinking they are covered just by having DSC1. I registered weeks ago but not heard anything more.

I was going in the wrong direction , thinking I had to be an AGHE to sell on my surplus venison, as i had been asked if i would sell venison to people, but refused as i thought i would be breaking the law, now i can sort out my licence with the local authorities and possibly cover my expences of my stalking trips, so happy days now
Ray

 

[stratts]

Just thought I'd ressurect this thread to see how people are getting on selling venison in and out of the jacket and how they are doing with various local authorities as I've been asked via PM about registering because of another thread recently?

I've had my first 2 year inspection with everything fine and dandy and have started supplying a butcher rather than an AGHE as they take so long to pay around here and I get more for the carcass.

How's everyone else doing?

Stratts

 

[Grand Slam]

I registered as a food business at the end of last year. Received a letter stating that they would be visiting my premises to carry out an inspection. Quick phone call to the LA to explain that at this moment in time I was only supplying to an AGHE as whole carcasses and they were more than happy, no inspection required. I am to inform them if I want to start processing from home and then the inspection will take place. I intend to have everything in place for when that day comes to make the inspection go smoothly.

That wont be until next year as I am on holiday in the Falklands for the next 6 months.

 

[Primate]

I cannot see how registering as a food business with the LA is relevant, unless you have a premises and are skinning and processing the venison. For those of us who shoot deer and transport them directly to the AGHE in the fur surely the trained hunter DSC1 covers this?

 

[2130martin]

I cannot see how registering as a food business with the LA is relevant, unless you have a premises and are skinning and processing the venison. For those of us who shoot deer and transport them directly to the AGHE in the fur surely the trained hunter DSC1 covers this?

You probably need to read the links on post 49.......

 

[Primate]

You probably need to read the links on post 49.......

I had a look at the links in post 49. Yes, Interesting one this.
Seems there may be a need to register a vehicle that transports the carcasses to the AGHE. Has anyone had any experience of doing this yet (for vehicles)? and does any one know of the sort of criteria LA's are looking at being necessary for the vehicles? Surely they do not need to be refrigerated in order to transport a carcass to a Game Dealer immediately after it being shot?
I will also make an enquiry with the LA, and see what they have to say.
Thanks.

 

[LostJock]

I thought I had this square in my mind-glad to have been proved wrong! The Wild Game Guide is good, but not the clearest. The flow chart for individuals selling to local retailers/final consumers says that the legislation doesn't count; just as well the small print states that despite this you still have to register as a food business.
This was all leading to a question based on a scenario like this:
Deer is shot at last light. Butcher is closed, so the decision is taken to hold the carcass overnight in a garage chiller. What're the mandatory standards for that chiller/garage?
Having read everything here it seems that the standards are fairly changeable depending on who you speak to. I'm all for common sense prevailing in this risk-averse culture, but that won't stop you being strung up when someone fancies it.
Thanks to those who took the time to clear things up.
LJ

 

[Chasey]

So who has managed to get registered as a food business if you haven't got a larder and use the family bus for transport as most recreational stalkers do? Surely a LA will just laugh at it.

#

I am regestred as a food business in Kent

I have a foster fridge as a chiller and a Foster freezer in my car port. I skin in the carport and I do meet prep in my kitchen

For the skinning area I use virgin visquean DPM membrain (1000g plastic sheet) on the floor (block paveing) whilst working. This is disposed of after prepping the animal

I keep temp records for the fridge in use and I fill in a log for every animal shot and prepped which includes shot details, location, condition, transport time etc.

I use Detol antibac spray as a steralizig agent (available in Tesco and approved)

I have a dishwasher that runs at 98c to clean equipment

I have a 1.2m X 900 chopping board that goes on the central island in my kitchen for butchery and of course the kitchen has the necessary hand washing facilities


Whole inspection took about 90mins and the fella was very helpful

ATB

 

[Brian243]

I cannot see how registering as a food business with the LA is relevant, unless you have a premises and are skinning and processing the venison. For those of us who shoot deer and transport them directly to the AGHE in the fur surely the trained hunter DSC1 covers this?

I don't have a chiller and take any large deer I shoot straight to the game dealer. I transport the carcasses in a large plastic carcass tray which fits in either the back of my 4x4 or in my trailer. My vehicles were inspected and approved by an environmental health officer for East Northamptonshire Council and the only additional requirement was to add an extra column to my cull records showing time shot and time delivered to the game dealer. The wording in the letter I received is that I am 'registered with ENC to handle wild game in the fur from the kill site to a middleman or direct to an AGHE'. It was a straightforward process and the people I dealt with were extremely helpful. It's all about traceability into the food chain.
The muntjac and roe carcasses which I process in my garage for my own consumption were of no interest to the inspector.