Sending firearms for repair via Parcel Force/Royal Mail

[ContinShots]

Morning all.

I know this has been discussed over the years, but as T&Cs change from time to time, I wanted to ask the hive mind for their collective opinion.

I need to send a S1 firearm to an RFD for repair. Sending a firearm for repair is not a notifiable transfer as it is not 'sale, gift, lend etc.' and there is no requirement for it it to go via RFD transfer. The FAC holder can send it direct to the RFD gunsmith.

This is what I've been advised by around half a dozen RFDs in the past couple of years when I have had to send off a couple of other S1 firearms for repair work. Indeed, when you look at RM/PF terms and conditions, they are quite clear that air weapons, S1 and S2 firearms can be sent via their system within the UK and there is absolutely no mention of it need to go to/be sent via an RFD. I even had one stopped and inspected last year, and it was eventually cleared and confirmed that its carriage complied with the T&Cs.

Here's RM/PF terms of carriage for non-business, personal customers: Personal help & support hub | Royal Mail

The key section reads as follows:

Royal Mail.: "UK - Allowed in the mail, see restrictions and packaging guidelines below:​

• Guns intended for sporting purposes - including Section 1 (e.g. hunting rifles) and Section 2 (e.g. shotguns) firearms, low-powered air weapons and their component parts - may be sent in compliance with UK law and subject to domestic controls on the possession of firearms."

Parcel Force: "UK destinations - Allowed in the mail, with restrictions and packaging guidelines below:​

o These items must be sent on an express48 service only.​

o These items must be sent via the Post Office only, and presented at the counter.​

o Enhanced compensation cover is not available."​

​

The issue I'm facing is that the RFD gunsmith who is going to do the repair in this instance is insisting that it has to be sent via RFD transfer. Setting aside any potential benefits of that, the downsides are that I don't have a local one, so will have to travel a fair distance, and it's going to add close to £100 to the cost of the repair. I don't really want to have to do that if I don't need to.

Their argument for insisting that it go via RFD transfer is that the RM/PF business terms and conditions state something different. They have advised me that RM/PF require business customers to be RFDs and they can only send them between RFDs. That said, the quote they've provided me with (see below) doesn't actually appear in the current RM/PF terms of carriage for business account holders available online (Business help & support hub | Royal Mail)

This is what the RFD has said are RM/PF's business customer terms:

"Arms and Ammunition, Carriage of firearms
“Collections and deliveries of section 1 and 2 firearms will only be accepted where it can be shown to Parcelforce Worldwide’s satisfaction that both the sender and the recipient are Registered Firearms Dealers”"

My own opinion on this is as follows:

1. Personal customers and business customers are not subject to the same RM/PF terms and conditions. Personal customers can send air weapons, S1 and S2 firearms without them having to go via RFD transfer so long as it complies with firearms law, which sending a gun for repair would do.
2. If I am arranging and sending a gun for repair to an RFD without a business account, then I am a personal customer. I am subject to the RM/PF personal terms and conditions. It's not a breach of the receiving RFD's RM/PF business T&Cs if I sent it to them direct because I'm the customer for that shipping transaction, not them. I'm not not subject to the same rules.
3. It may be that because the repairing RFD has a RM/PF business account that once repaired they cannot return it directly to me and have to send it to a local RFD, but again, that doesn't prevent me sending it direct to them.

None of this is helped by RM/PF having different terms and conditions for different type of customer, but I still believe it's fairly clear if you follow the legal framework and have read both sets of RM/PF terms and conditions. What do others think?

Separately, it would appear that if an RFD doesn't have a business account with RM/PF and therefore uses the non-business, personal account service, they too are not required to send via RFD transfer, only that the sending of the firearm must comply with applicable firearms law. I know at least one RFD who uses this route to send firearms direct back to a customer after repair.

Many thanks indeed

 

[bbrc]

They change their terms and conditions all the time however from my memory you’ve got to have a business account before you can ship Firearms at all, there is no facility to correctly sent Firearms without an account.
If you have a business account, you can arrange for collection of a firearm from somebody who’s not an RFD however they would not be able to ship it back to you directly it would have to go via a rfd.

 

[ContinShots]

Thanks for the reply, but that's not what the non-business account terms and conditions say, however, and it's not what they've said for years now (they haven't changed, it's the business ones that appear to have changed).

 

[Andyquadra]

Can't you just get the RFD who's repairing it to organise collection from you? Thats how I've done it a couple of times.

 

[olliehopes]

They don't advertise it on their website that they carry firearms, for obvious security reasons.

The rule of only RFDs sending firearms from their place of business is to ensure ( HA!) that the firearm does not get left with someone who isn't a licence or RFD holder.

Just send it via an RFD and stop trying to find loopholes

 

[ContinShots]

They don't advertise it on their website that they carry firearms, for obvious security reasons.

The rule of only RFDs sending firearms from their place of business is to ensure ( HA!) that the firearm does not get left with someone who isn't a licence or RFD holder.

Just send it via an RFD and stop trying to find loopholes

Firstly, I am not trying to find a loop hole. I am trying to establish what the accurate applicable procedure is, and given that plenty of RFDs accept firearms sent direct to them for repair, it is obvious that many do not share your negative view. Secondly, you clearly haven't bothered reading carefully anything I've posted as they literally do advertise the carriage of firearms on their website and I even spoonfed the exact location of it.

 

[ContinShots]

Can't you just get the RFD who's repairing it to organise collection from you? Thats how I've done it a couple of times.

Thanks for the positive input. Yes, that would be an option if they offered it, but for whatever reason, they won't do that. It may be that they consider it still to not be RFD to RFD, albeit as they would then be the party ordering the collection of the parcel and receiving the collected parcel at the other end, they're essentially the sending it to themselves. Like you, I've had an RFD order collection direct from me in the recent past for a repair.

 

[udderlyoffroad]

Thanks for the positive input. Yes, that would be an option if they offered it, but for whatever reason, they won't do that. It may be that they consider it still to not be RFD to RFD.

The reasons are:
1) RFD-RFD transfer will have a papertrail on the RFDs’ (e)ledgers & avoids awkward questions during any audit.
2) RFDs will be far more likely to package it properly than Joe Public.

Honestly it’s an expensive business all round but quite frankly the thought of handing over a firearm registered to a parcelfarce operative is a risk not worth taking in 2025.

 

[ContinShots]

The reasons are:
1) RFD-RFD transfer will have a papertrail on the RFDs’ (e)ledgers & avoids awkward questions during any audit.
2) RFDs will be far more likely to package it properly than Joe Public.

Honestly it’s an expensive business all round but quite frankly the thought of handing over a firearm registered to a parcelfarce operative is a risk not worth taking in 2025.

Having received a truly shoddy packed rifle via RFD transfer and packed by the RFD, I'm not sure that I entirely believe that latter! In fact, most rifles I've received via RFD transfer were simply packed by the FAC holder, left with the RFD and collected by PF with the RFD doing next to nothing.

Anyhow, if the receiving RFD won't budge, I'll go with the process they wish to follow, but what I'm interested in establishing are the facts as to what is or is not permitted, not people's opinions based on them clearly not bothering to have looked into it and just shooting from the hip or saying what they assume must be correct (and, yes, I know that is a big ask for the Internet). Not having a go at you incidentally, more a general point.

 

[BE Precision]

go down your post office with it wrapped like a severed leg and see if they will take it

 

[ContinShots]

go down your post office with it wrapped like a severed leg and see if they will take it

When I have sent firearms in the past, they most certainly do not look like severed legs when they're packaged up.

 

[ashray]

my local post offices 3 of them refuse point blank to send post to an rfd stating royal mail do not deal with any thing fire arms related. in my case i was posting a moderator to jackson rifle . dont use the post office !!

 

[ContinShots]

my local post offices 3 of them refuse point blank to send post to an rfd stating royal mail do not deal with any thing fire arms related. in my case i was posting a moderator to jackson rifle . dont use the post office !!

The RM/PF terms and conditions literally say they do. The problem is that most Post Office employees don't understand the terms and conditions and are also mislead by posters in branches that summarise terms incorrectly.

 

[BE Precision]

if you don't send it through the secure service, how are you compliant with the conditions of your FAC/RFD re.. Reasonable measures/reasonable precautions... if it goes through the licenced business it complies, if it doesn't - are you sure of compliance with the terms??

the "NO TO NBR" is the difference, its great finding one left behind the wheelie bin...

 

[ContinShots]

if you don't send it through the secure service, how are you compliant with the conditions of your FAC/RFD re.. Reasonable measures/reasonable precautions... if it goes through the licenced business it complies, if it doesn't - are you sure of compliance with the terms??

the "NO TO NBR" is the difference, its great finding one left behind the wheelie bin...

Secure service? Is that a joke? RFD transfer through PF to Northern Scotland takes 3-4 days no matter what service is used. They sit about all over the shop en route and get left in depos, in standard PF vans with all of the other parcels and dropped outside porches and, yes, behind wheelie bins; I've even heard of PF delivering firearms destined for RFD to neighbouring properties because the RFD was closed.

That aside, RM and PF are approved firearms transporters. When a firearm is in their hands it is THEIR responsibility to look after it securely. You have fulfilled the terms of your SGC or FAC by using an approved transporter and following their terms, and in the case of a non-business customer, that means handing it over to a post office counter, marking it not for air transport, ensuring its unloaded and using a signed for or record option for RM or PF48 for Parcel Force (all as stipulated by Royal Mail and Parcel Force's conditions for the carriage of S1 and S2 firearms as published by them on their website).

The current RM/PF terms and conditions of carriage for non-business customer are quite clear. They will carry your S1 and S2 firearms, subject to some specifications for carriage (none of which require RFD involvement) and so long as you are adhering to other applicable law, which you are so long as it's for repair work etc. I've literally posted a link. It take 30 seconds to read them. If you are a business account holder and RFD, then you have different terms and they are not relevant to non-business customers; again, I've posted a link to the different terms.

 

[ContinShots]

Just a little update, the RFD/gunsmith I've been dealing with has now checked with Royal Mail/Parcel Force and they have confirmed that non-business customers can send S1 and S2 firearms via Royal Mail or Parcel Force without going via an RFD, so long as it is otherwise legal to do so, which would included sending a gun for repair. However, business account holders must be RFDs in order to send firearms through the RM/PF networks and they can only send to another RFD. It is as I thought it was.

 

[Heym SR20]

Just a little update, the RFD/gunsmith I've been dealing with has now checked with Royal Mail/Parcel Force and they have confirmed that non-business customers can send S1 and S2 firearms via Royal Mail or Parcel Force without going via an RFD, so long as it is otherwise legal to do so, which would included sending a gun for repair. However, business account holders must be RFDs in order to send firearms through the RM/PF networks and they can only send to another RFD. It is as I thought it was.

So you are confirming that I can pack up a shotgun, walk down to my post office and send that to Bang and Bodget - that well known RFD who will then repair it for me.

 

[Liveonce]

RFDs use a parcel force online dedicated system, that identifies the parcel as a firearm, uses next day (am?) delivery and must be delivered to the address specified.

If you sent it via the local post office and the worst happens it gets lost I wonder what your FEO would make of it?

Then you will need the service of a RFD to receive it back.

 

[Liveonce]

Just a little update, the RFD/gunsmith I've been dealing with has now checked with Royal Mail/Parcel Force and they have confirmed that non-business customers can send S1 and S2 firearms via Royal Mail or Parcel Force without going via an RFD, so long as it is otherwise legal to do so, which would included sending a gun for repair. However, business account holders must be RFDs in order to send firearms through the RM/PF networks and they can only send to another RFD. It is as I thought it was.

So what stops an RFD just sending it as a personal customer by walking into the post office? Must be additional benefits and security by holding an RFD parcel force account?

 

[VSS]

my local post offices 3 of them refuse point blank to send post to an rfd stating royal mail do not deal with any thing fire arms related. in my case i was posting a moderator to jackson rifle . dont use the post office !!

You can have parcels collected from your home address by Royal Mail, which bypasses the whole business of having to explain to some numpty behind the Post Office counter what it is.