Shotgun ammunition.

[timbrayford]

If you think this is difficult try shooting a single ball from a muzzleloader smoothbore entered as a shotgun on a licence!
All legislation regarding shotgun cartridges requiring special licensing are described as loaded ammunition.
As a muzzleloader does not use ammunition they are exempt. Or are they?
Thats when the real arguments start!
I had the very same argument with my licencing department and they had no arguments back but pulled rank on me with threats of revoke.
FUBAR.

You can lawfully use solid ball in a S2 muzzle loader, Bill Harriman of BASC clarified this some years ago

 

[timbrayford]

I guess the reason I do it is to make it harder to access if someone were to gain access to the shotguns it goes with - to prevent the ((however unlikely) event it could be used on me or my family if anyone did ever break in.

I agree, I'm just very disappointed with the way that the law enforcement authorities make law abiding shooter's comply with all manner of inconvenient nit picking and then treat crooks like royalty.

 

[Firefly]

Read the Firearms Act for yourself. Anybody who shoots, should know the law and what he /she can and cannot do. The only way you learn is to look up the information for yourself.

Best get rid of this forum then , harsh.

 

[DesG]

You probably had it for when we had bears and wolves in the forests.

 

[Ploddy Paul]

Hi Smellydog, I bought my flintlock as a section 58, when I put it onto my SC I asked the FD if I needed to put the ammo onto my FAC as it would be single ball. Was told no because it’s not a complete cartridge ie you’re loading each bit separately so they don’t consider it section 1. Paul

 

[Smellydog]

Hi Smellydog, I bought my flintlock as a section 58, when I put it onto my SC I asked the FD if I needed to put the ammo onto my FAC as it would be single ball. Was told no because it’s not a complete cartridge ie you’re loading each bit separately so they don’t consider it section 1. Paul

That's mint thanks. It maybe ok for target shooting at a range but not ok to hunt with.
Hope I am mistaken.
I've never come across a bobby in the woods to ask .

 

[ContinShots]

If you think this is difficult try shooting a single ball from a muzzleloader smoothbore entered as a shotgun on a licence!
All legislation regarding shotgun cartridges requiring special licensing are described as loaded ammunition.
As a muzzleloader does not use ammunition they are exempt. Or are they?
Thats when the real arguments start!
I had the very same argument with my licencing department and they had no arguments back but pulled rank on me with threats of revoke.
FUBAR.

That's a good point, but your licensing department is demonstrably wrong and both statute law and case law show they don't have a leg to stand on. The provisions in Section 1 only apply to cartridges, not ball rammed down a musket. However, they can sometimes have you feeling like you're over a barrel, because there are plenty of stories of folk pushing back too hard and then seeing things revoked or a strange increase in traffic stops and other events. Whether it's true or not, I've no idea and the police staff I've dealt with have all been decent, but the worry is always there in the back of your heard. It shouldn't beike that, folk should he free to complain and advocate for themselves, but unless licensing becomes the job of a separate government agency or quango, I can't see it changing much.

 

[Heym SR20]

It makes perfect sense. A 12 bore with 5 pellets of LG is fine. A 20 bore with 4 pellets of LG is far more dangerous and therefor Sect 1. Who dreams up these laws!

The vast majority of shotguns are 12 bore, or certainly were when these laws were drafted. The reason for 5 or more shot is to ensure that a shotgun remains a short range weapon. These laws were pretty much drafted in the 1960’s when Britain was at the end of empire, had felt the effects of when the natives had possession of rifles, and we had groups on our own shores that were also wanting freedom. A shotgun with shot will kill a man at 20 yards, perhaps a little more, but its certainly no a rifle with a single bullet.

With a solid ball the killing range moves out quite considerably. Slugs in all guages including the 410 are perfectly capable of killing deer or man sized targets at well 150 yards, and whilst the accurate range may be 50 to 75 yards, you can certainly put down good effective fire quite a lot further. In the smaller bores would be perfectly to used a patched .360” round ball to give similar effect. Smooth bore muskets, whilst not particularly accurate with a round ball could perfectly easily kill at well over 200.

The requirement for five or more shot takes the use of single balls at higher velocities from the smaller bores well out of the realm of possibility.

Saying that in days of the Rhodesian bush war, many Rhodesians took the view that a side by side 12 bore with buck shot would deliver the same effect as half a magazine full of 9mm browning, and far more likely to be on target, and the other half of the mag was at the pull of the second trigger. A 5 shot pump was far more effective than a full uzi or sten and again far more likely to be on target. A handful of slugs were useful to encourage any undesirables to continue on their way.

 

[Smellydog]

9mm browning

Or 9x19, or 9mm lugar or even parabellum.
I've heard of 50 Browning and gravy browning but not 9mm Browning.... correct me if I am wrong please.

You'll be calling bullets heads soon if your not careful!!

 

[8x57]

Heym probably was talking about the 9x19 , but there is such a cartridge as the 9mm Browning. Its called the 9mm Browning Long and was introduced in the 1903 Model Browning pistol. It was popular in Europe but was never adopted in the U.S.A.

 

[Heym SR20]

Or 9x19, or 9mm lugar or even parabellum.
I've heard of 50 Browning and gravy browning but not 9mm Browning.... correct me if I am wrong please.

You'll be calling bullets heads soon if your not careful!!

I meant the 9mm Browning High Power which was the pistol of choice of British and Commonwealth forces after the Webley revolvers were phased out during and after WW2. They had 10 or 11 round magazines I seem to recall. Often referred to as the 9mm Browning

 

[8x57]

13

 

[Smellydog]

13

They loaded less for reliability

 

[Smellydog]

I meant the 9mm Browning High Power which was the pistol of choice of British and Commonwealth forces after the Webley revolvers were phased out during and after WW2. They had 10 or 11 round magazines I seem to recall. Often referred to as the 9mm Browning

I know, I was being an ass.
Never shot a high power

 

[8x57]

They loaded less for reliability

Yes usually only 10.

 

[8x57]

Never shot a high power

You haven't missed much. There are much better pistols.
First thing to do to improve the awful trigger pull on a Hi-Power is to remove the magazine disconnect.

 

[Heym SR20]

I know, I was being an ass.
Never shot a high power

I have shot them a couple of times. Difficult to hit anything with them.
Certainly not as easy to shoot as a Sig or the Glock.

Generally pistols are only good if you train with them, and train with them lots. A 12 guage with buckshot has a lot more authority and much much easier to use.

 

[Cranhill]

I have shot them a couple of times. Difficult to hit anything with them.
Certainly not as easy to shoot as a Sig or the Glock.

Generally pistols are only good if you train with them, and train with them lots. A 12 guage with buckshot has a lot more authority and much much easier to use.

We had a Wren in our unit, she was the best shot (Browning Pistol) in the Southwest command.