Shotgun in ammunition safe

[Birdshot]

Hello folks,

Long story short I've got 2 gun safes, 1 for firearms and shotguns, another for ammunition........the firearms safe is full and I'm thinking of adding another shotgun to my collection...... would it be legal to put a shotgun in my ammunition safe since the ammunition is not compatible with it???

 

[VSS]

Yes.

 

[Hambone]

Don't see why not as long as the ammunition safe is up to the required standard for shotguns.

 

[cjm1066]

There is no law on this, just conditions on your license.

If it in a gun safe what's the problem, you are comply with the conditions.

 

[chriswjx]

Can't see why not? It's just S1 weapons that must be stored seperately from S1 ammunition. So I can't see why S2 weapons could not be stored with S1 ammunition?

 

[ContinShots]

Hello folks,

Long story short I've got 2 gun safes, 1 for firearms and shotguns, another for ammunition........the firearms safe is full and I'm thinking of adding another shotgun to my collection...... would it be legal to put a shotgun in my ammunition safe since the ammunition is not compatible with it???

You can legally store ammunition for S2 shotguns in any place you wish so long as you are taking reasonable steps to secure it and prevent it being taken by those without a certificate. That means you don't have to store it as per the Section 1 rules, so long as it's not ammunition that's S1 of course, like shotgun slugs. My FEO confirmed this only last month. So, as per others, I see no issue with this legally.

 

[fixedwheel]

You can legally store ammunition for S2 shotguns in any place you wish so long as you are taking reasonable steps to secure it and prevent it being taken by those without a certificate.

S2 cartridges don't need a licence to possess, only to purchase. I can hand a slab of them to a friend who has neither a FAC or SGC, and he can take them home with no issues. So your sentence doesn't make sense as no certificate required.

Securing them from minors, and safely in general, is just good sense, but don't need to be locked away.

 

[timbrayford]

Hello folks,

Long story short I've got 2 gun safes, 1 for firearms and shotguns, another for ammunition........the firearms safe is full and I'm thinking of adding another shotgun to my collection...... would it be legal to put a shotgun in my ammunition safe since the ammunition is not compatible with it???

Don't over egg it, the legal requirements are to keep s2 firearms and S1 firearms and ammunition secure, no more and no less.

 

[enfieldspares]

Hello folks,

Long story short I've got 2 gun safes, 1 for firearms and shotguns, another for ammunition........the firearms safe is full and I'm thinking of adding another shotgun to my collection...... would it be legal to put a shotgun in my ammunition safe since the ammunition is not compatible with it???

Yes. I do that and have done it for the last thirty-five years I have been at my present address. The shotguns go in the same cabinet with my s1 ammunition. However there may be individual conditions that the OP has placed on his authority to own such that we are not aware of.

 

[chriswjx]

S2 cartridges don't need a licence to possess, only to purchase. I can hand a slab of them to a friend who has neither a FAC or SGC, and he can take them home with no issues. So your sentence doesn't make sense as no certificate required.

Securing them from minors, and safely in general, is just good sense, but don't need to be locked away.

You can legally store ammunition for S2 shotguns in any place you wish so long as you are taking reasonable steps to secure it and prevent it being taken by those without a certificate. That means you don't have to store it as per the Section 1 rules, so long as it's not ammunition that's S1 of course, like shotgun slugs. My FEO confirmed this only last month. So, as per others, I see no issue with this legally.

ContinShots' sentence makes sense in the most part... There's a difference between you giving your friend a slab, and a casual visitor to the house, say the plumber, lifting a slab whilst he's letting you go see the toilet he's just fixed for you.

The only modification I guess you could argue is that it should simply be "prevent it being taken" end of sentence. As it does not really matter whether the person taking them has a certificate or not - although I guess if the thief did not have a licence, and the cartridges were taken not given, then they might get done for firearms offences as well?

 

[fixedwheel]

ContinShots' sentence makes sense in the most part... There's a difference between you giving your friend a slab, and a casual visitor to the house, say the plumber, lifting a slab whilst he's letting you go see the toilet he's just fixed for you.

The only modification I guess you could argue is that it should simply be "prevent it being taken" end of sentence. As it does not really matter whether the person taking them has a certificate or not - although I guess if the thief did not have a licence, and the cartridges were taken not given, then they might get done for firearms offences as well?

As the thief would be in possession of S2 ammo, that doesn't require a certificate to posses, the offence would be theft, rather than firearms related. Unless the thief was already Sec21 prohibited.

Can't see what the owner can be charged with in that scenario, in the same way that you aren't going to charge an owner with motoring offences committed by someone nicking their car.

Section 2.46 of the Firearms Security Handbook - https://assets.publishing.service.g...file/953881/Firearms_Security_Manual_2020.pdf

2.46 Ammunition for section 1 firearms must be kept secure. As a matter of best practice it should be stored in its own individual secure storage, e.g. an integral, lockable compartment within a gun cabinet. Although secure storage of shotgun cartridges is not a requirement of the Firearms Acts, it is sensible to recommend that they should be locked away for both security and safety, especially where there are children in the house.

So, not a requirement. Pretty clearly put. Also, you could argue the point that S1 ammo doesn't need to be separate from the S1 firearm(s), but most would say it is easier not to have to play Tetris with both ammo and firearms in the cabinet.

 

[ContinShots]

S2 cartridges don't need a licence to possess, only to purchase. I can hand a slab of them to a friend who has neither a FAC or SGC, and he can take them home with no issues. So your sentence doesn't make sense as no certificate required.

Securing them from minors, and safely in general, is just good sense, but don't need to be locked away.

Sorry, I perhaps didn't phrase that as clearly as I could have. You have a legal responsibility to secure them so that people who legally cannot possess them cannot access them. In my mind that includes children who out of sense if nothing else shouldn't access them, but it also includes adults who are barred from possessing ammunition. Leaving cartridges in an unlocked or otherwise accessible place in your houses doesn't stop someone who is not permitted to possess ammunition being in your house and accessing them. It could be a plumber, it could be a friend who served time, it could be one of a few potential situations. Anyhow, my view is that irrespective of what the law says, it is just common sense that cartridges should be locked away. It helps to reduce potential for accidents, which is as important as anything, they can however be stored as the OP queried. We have enough antis piling at shooting sports as it is and slack, unsecure cartridge storage would just give them more ammunition, pardon the pun.

 

[fixedwheel]

Sorry @ContinShots, whilst I agree with you it is sensible to secure S2 cartridges, maybe you can post a link to the law section that you are referring to?

I have already pointed a link to the Firearms Security Handbook, so I would be grateful for you pointing out something that contradicts that. Any regular visitor to SD will be only too aware of FEOs & FLDs, all over the country, adding/embellishing extra conditions onto the various acts of parliament, as well as re-interpreting the statutory guidance from the Home Office, and I think it is only right to be aware of the various bits to be able to question those interpretations.

Saying, "I know I don't have to look up the S2 stuff, but I choose to do so" can only be seen by the FEO as being responsible & informed. A competitive clay shooter, buying a pallet load of cartridges at the start of a season, may choose to store them away from the cabinets, and shouldn't be penalised if they are complying with the law.

As for a S21 prohibited person, they sh/would know the restrictions on themselves from the release papers, even to the point that they must not be in possession of airgun pellets as well as S2 cartridges. So, they should be smart enough not to pick anything up that they shouldn't , and even refuse being handed something. That is their responsibility as an adult, as well as a S21 Prohibited Person, rather than mine. I keep shooting related items out of sight of casual visitors such as tradespeople, but they shouldn't be picking up something unrelated to their task anyways.

 

[chriswjx]

As the thief would be in possession of S2 ammo, that doesn't require a certificate to posses, the offence would be theft, rather than firearms related. Unless the thief was already Sec21 prohibited.

Except for whatever reason they have illegally obtain S2 ammo, without a certificate and therefore a legal way to use the stuff? Would presume it was for a nefarious reason rather than just to say he had done it... say to shoot out of a bodged together shotgun put together with a bit of plumbing? All pipe dreams (weak pun intended), but the point is that I cannot see any reason why anyone who decided to nick S2 ammo who did not have their own certificate would not subsequently use it for no good.

Can't see what the owner can be charged with in that scenario, in the same way that you aren't going to charge an owner with motoring offences committed by someone nicking their car.

Never said they would get charged. Would suspect Mr Plod would have a sitdown and a very serious chat with you though about how you stored your S2 ammunition, to make sure you weren't negligent with it...

 

[Druid]

Except for whatever reason they have illegally obtain S2 ammo, without a certificate and therefore a legal way to use the stuff? Would presume it was for a nefarious reason rather than just to say he had done it... say to shoot out of a bodged together shotgun put together with a bit of plumbing? All pipe dreams (weak pun intended), but the point is that I cannot see any reason why anyone who decided to nick S2 ammo who did not have their own certificate would not subsequently use it for no good.



Never said they would get charged. Would suspect Mr Plod would have a sitdown and a very serious chat with you though about how you stored your S2 ammunition, to make sure you weren't negligent with it...

Rubbish.
There is no legal requirement to secure shotgun cartridges and no certificate needed to have possession.
You are making things up now. It’s not suprising that people become confused when they read things like you have just written.

 

[chriswjx]

Rubbish.
There is no legal requirement to secure shotgun cartridges and no certificate needed to have possession.
You are making things up now. It’s not suprising that people become confused when they read things like you have just written.

And you are making things up as well. I have at no point said that you need to secure them. You should be STORING them away from casual visitors etc. I know my FEO would be ringing up for a chat to make sure I've not been inviting theft by leaving slabs all around the place, if something like that happened to me...

But if you want to put words in my mouth, right o'.

 

[Birdshot]

Ok everybody just calm down.........the shotguns can be secured in the section 1 ammunition safe............that's all I needed to know.........cheers

 

[fixedwheel]

Except for whatever reason they have illegally obtain S2 ammo, without a certificate and therefore a legal way to use the stuff? Would presume it was for a nefarious reason rather than just to say he had done it... say to shoot out of a bodged together shotgun put together with a bit of plumbing? All pipe dreams (weak pun intended), but the point is that I cannot see any reason why anyone who decided to nick S2 ammo who did not have their own certificate would not subsequently use it for no good.



Never said they would get charged. Would suspect Mr Plod would have a sitdown and a very serious chat with you though about how you stored your S2 ammunition, to make sure you weren't negligent with it...

Firstly, Mr Plod would have to state why you weren't in compliance with the law (by stating which law & section), or even the HO guidelines. After he has hummed and hawwed, accompanied by sucking air through his teeth, (loudly) you could point him at Sec1(4)(a) of the Firearms Act 1968, and ask where it says anyone needs to be a SGC or FAC holder to possess S2 cartridges?

 

[chriswjx]

Firstly, Mr Plod would have to state why you weren't in compliance with the law (by stating which law & section), or even the HO guidelines. After he has hummed and hawwed, accompanied by sucking air through his teeth, (loudly) you could point him at Sec1(4)(a) of the Firearms Act 1968, and ask where it says anyone needs to be a SGC or FAC holder to possess S2 cartridges?

I'll let you stay fixated on that part

Cheers

 

[Druid]

And you are making things up as well. I have at no point said that you need to secure them. You should be STORING them away from casual visitors etc. I know my FEO would be ringing up for a chat to make sure I've not been inviting theft by leaving slabs all around the place, if something like that happened to me...

But if you want to put words in my mouth, right o'.

I’m not the one saying that anyone with any shotgun cartridges who doesn’t have a certificate (perfectly legal) would likely have nefarious reasons like making a home made gun.
I think you win on the making things up.