Shotgun Safety Course

[Heym SR20]

no course will ever stop accidents, courses pass on knowledge or teach a skill but are no substitute for experience, complacency causes accidents. How many car accidents happen every day?

Imagine how many car accidents there would be if there was no driver instruction or testing.

Complacency does cause accidents, especially in those who have been doing something for a long time.

But a complete lack of knowledge, especially a lack of understanding of consequences is far far more dangerous.

When many of us grew up most of us had parents, grandparents, uncles etc who had a very direct experience of firearms either durectly in the war, or in national service. Many of us learnt from these of dangers of misuse.

Nowadays anybody under the age of 40 probably has not had direct knowledge of firearms handed to them, that unless they happen to have grown up in a shooting household. Kids these days do not handle firearms as part of their education, as scouts etc. gone are the days when a pellet gun was part of many kids childhood.

Pretty much their only interaction is with things nerf guns, video games or telly. With all of these pointing them at somebody and squeezing the trigger has no consequences. There is no realisation of the damage that bullet or shot can do to living tissue.

The only way that many get into shooting is through shooting in clubs or at clay grounds. It is only reasonable that before they are granted a licence they do at least a basic safety course so they fully understand the dangers.

Only recently there was an incident at a clay ground with a university shooting club member of farming and shot all his life type background very nearly not only his own but somebody else’s foot clean off when his “unloaded” shotgun discharged. Thankfully nobody was hurt. The individual concerned has a shotgun certificate and should have known better - but clearly did not.

 

[User00056]

No. THEY want you to do it but are not legally allowed to demand it

Absolutely this! People need to start formally requesting these demands are justified in writing, including the relevant section of the guidance that it's coming from.

 

[ColinJ]

Absolutely this! People need to start formally requesting these demands are justified in writing, including the relevant section of the guidance that it's coming from.

And this achieves what exactly?

 

[paul o']

no course will ever stop accidents, courses pass on knowledge or teach a skill but are no substitute for experience, complacency causes accidents. How many car accidents happen every day?

I'd agree with you but if just a bit sticks and removes the tad of **** element then it was worth it !
I'd agree with the car and golf and cooking and walking and swimming and for that every time we open our eyes thats most of the problems lots just won't! oh the list goes on but here we are hoping to eliminate pain from bad gun or shotgun handling Also promote good skill with arms after all be it on the range on the clay ground even out stalking. Don't we all wish to go home having enjoyed our event.

 

[spanj]

How would you suggest a Firearms Enquiry Officer should ensure public safety when considering a new application from a novice? Options could include:
- hope and pray
- cross their fingers
- suck it and see
- suggest a nationally recognised training course?

Oh i dont know….. howsabout the tried and tested method of starting with airrifles before being shown rimfire and then centrefires by somebody experienced rather than a formal and increasingly expensive course. This method has worked for a very long time. It would be a different story for somebody with absolutely no connection with or experience of shooting though

 

[Kalahari]

Trouble with some of this is that in the UK where there aren't very many safety tests we have a better safety record than many countries that do have tests. Be careful of what you wish for and the law of unintended consequences.

David.

 

[ColinJ]

Oh i dont know….. howsabout the tried and tested method of starting with airrifles before being shown rimfire and then centrefires by somebody experienced rather than a formal and increasingly expensive course. This method has worked for a very long time. It would be a different story for somebody with absolutely no connection with or experience of shooting though

I'm sure if an applicant had that background an FEO wouldn't be asking for a shotgun skills course. My question stands, how does an FEO protect public safety when the applicant has no experience?

 

[User00056]

And this achieves what exactly?

I would've thought it would be self-evident to anyone with more than a couple of brain cells. However, I'll spell it out for you. The more unwarranted and unjustified 'extras' accepted, the more the force responsible will impose. It's not rocket science, is it?

And as for an FEO 'protecting public safety'? He doesn't. That's not his job. His job is to ensure that the existing requirements and procedure is adhered to. Nothing more

 

[ColinJ]

And as for an FEO 'protecting public safety'? He doesn't. That's not his job. His job is to ensure that the existing requirements and procedure is adhered to. Nothing more

The primary role of police is protecting public safety.
Google it.

 

[ColinJ]

Public safety is protected by way of home office guidance and the existing legislation pertaining to Firearms and Shotgun Licensing.

There is an awful lot more to public safety than that. You are looking at one small element of police work, the police have to consider so much more than that. You really need to take your blinkers off.

 

[Liveonce]

The only way that many get into shooting is through shooting in clubs or at clay grounds. It is only reasonable that before they are granted a licence they do at least a basic safety course so they fully understand the dangers.

Only recently there was an incident at a clay ground with a university shooting club member of farming and shot all his life type background very nearly not only his own but somebody else’s foot clean off when his “unloaded” shotgun discharged. Thankfully nobody was hurt. The individual concerned has a shotgun certificate and should have known better - but clearly did not.

And you cannot 100% categorically be certain that the accident would not have happened if the person causing the accident had done a basic safety course, or may be they had. Accidents, negligent discharges are very rare.
What do you think happens on a basic shotgun safety course? do you think they shoot a large watermelon to show the danger? I think not, in fact I know they do not.

Do you not think Clay clubs teach basic safety as part of the requirements to join for a complete never handled a shotgun applicant before they are allowed to shoot. Just as rifle Clubs also do via a probation period.

Why is it that we think we know best just because we already own firearms and are then happy to preach for more barriers like a mandatory basic safety course?

Shooting is a very safe sport.

It is not unreasonable for the FEO to expect a new applicant to be safety aware and experience of using a shotgun.
But that can be achieved in many additional ways not just by a voluntary or a mandatory CPSA style basic safety course. There are many Clay grounds around the country affiliated to the CPSA that offer the opportunity to safely take up clay pigeon shooting without the need for formal training and thankfully the law does not require any such course.
For a club to be affiliated to the CPSA they must have a CPSA qualified safety officer.

 

[sy247]

How would you suggest a Firearms Enquiry Officer should ensure public safety when considering a new application from a novice? Options could include:
- hope and pray
- cross their fingers
- suck it and see
- suggest a nationally recognised training course?

Ask the applicant some basic questions about firearms safety. There's only a few important things to remember!

 

[Stalker62]

Ask the applicant some basic questions about firearms safety. There's only a few important things to remember!

Using the example of driving a car, and to extrapolate your answer: do away with driving lessons and the driving test. Just ask the candidate how they would drive on the motorway at night in heavy rain...

 

[Stalker62]

I was going to suggest you shove your Google suggestions up your arse, but you'll be pleased to know I thought better of it.

You are better than that response.

 

[LordBob]

I have seen several unsafe people at shoots and at clay grounds. I think a national accepted qualification would be a good idea, even if just for new applicants.
Not everyone has a suitable friend/relative to be taught the basics by.

 

[gixer1]

Do they feel your inept and that's why they wish you and others to do a course! That in truth all new shooters should do pre given cert. I have seen and watched many shooters and clay busters as an instructor of things that go bang !
To that I'd add unless you were born around guns evey new shooter should be given as part of there fee and before granted they should have lessons in and on what type of blunderbuss they wish to own .


This is my opinion from observations over the last 50 odd years I'd
include the Police and MOD in this!
I've seen and witnessed some shocking handling and some stupid actions causing some serious injuries.
Mainly down to folks not having a clue why crap happens if they won't take instructions.

And you think that’s limited to novices?

Sometimes people make errors….experienced people, as Spanj said in the shooting community incidents and accidents are actually extremely low and the risk due to the low probability is also dramatically reduced, that’s just a fact, there is more danger to the public from golf it would seem.

 

[gixer1]

And this achieves what exactly?

A standard, not a personal opinion that can differ massively depending on what area of the country you live in.

 

[gixer1]

Using the example of driving a car, and to extrapolate your answer: do away with driving lessons and the driving test. Just ask the candidate how they would drive on the motorway at night in heavy rain...

It’s not an apples to apples example, the statistics clearly show that by the number of driving incidents vs the number of incidents with firearms.

The issue with the OP is the thread suggests she/he is being instructed to complete a mandatory course or he will not receive a SGC, the issue there is the fact not everyone receives this requirement, so again, inconsistency on the part of the firearms licencing for the U.K.

 

[Stalker62]

It’s not an apples to apples example, the statistics clearly show that by the number of driving incidents vs the number of incidents with firearms.

You are missing the point.

It matters not what the 'topic' is, some form of training/instruction can only ever be a good thing.

The issue with the OP is the thread suggests she/he is being instructed to complete a mandatory course or he will not receive a SGC, the issue there is the fact not everyone receives this requirement, so again, inconsistency on the part of the firearms licencing for the U.K.

I do not read it as that. It is being 'suggested'.

The only way to test that wee theory; is for the OP to decline that 'suggestion' and see where that takes the application.

 

[spanj]

Using the example of driving a car, and to extrapolate your answer: do away with driving lessons and the driving test. Just ask the candidate how they would drive on the motorway at night in heavy rain...

The car causes many more deaths than any weapon in this country …….