Smartwater Protection - Any thoughts

[seibassman7]

I suspect that the person in charge of this brilliant revenue generating venture will be taking ill health retirement two days before any disciplinary hearing and just after picking up a police business innovation award and a nice bonus. I could of course just be a little cynical and if I am I do of course apologise. Regards SBM

 

[kes]

I've been reading about this in the news over here . General opinion is , those responsible should be prosecuted . What idiot thinks it's alright to sell information like this , wow .

AB

You lot are too sensible. Over here our shooting organisation praises them for the steps they have taken and how valuable being on their group is to shooting - embarrassing.
Prosecutions should but will not follow the disclosure. Given the stupidity of the sale of info, relevant police should be sacked.

 

[User00025]

Ok everything has been said. Who in the Met area is going to law about this? We unfortunately all moan continually but very few will stand up and be counted. I am disgusted that our Sporting organisations haven't gone for the Met the way they(the Met) would go for Sportsmen on any infringement.

 

[Frank Homes]

Where do people get the idea that this data has been sold? according to their (MPS) website they have sent out an information leaflet which contains, amongst other things, the offer from Smartwater and have used a government procured company to facilitate that rather than using their own staff to stuff 30,000 envelopes. You can read it here.. Crime prevention initiative for licensed firearms - Metropolitan Police
Whether they have breached the Data Protection Act i do not know but most people who glibly accuse them of doing so probably have never read the Act or if they have don't understand it, as simple it aint. Why not let the Information Commissioner decide and await the outcome?

F

 

[rodp]

Probably because everyone thinks the information commissioner will come down on the side of the met.


Wonder why they think that ?

 

[kes]

Where do people get the idea that this data has been sold? according to their (MPS) website they have sent out an information leaflet which contains, amongst other things, the offer from Smartwater and have used a government procured company to facilitate that rather than using their own staff to stuff 30,000 envelopes. You can read it here.. Crime prevention initiative for licensed firearms - Metropolitan Police
Whether they have breached the Data Protection Act i do not know but most people who glibly accuse them of doing so probably have never read the Act or if they have don't understand it, as simple it aint. Why not let the Information Commissioner decide and await the outcome?


F

I think you would have a fair point were it not for the facts that this company is NOT a government agency and not the organisation to which the data has to be provided. Equally, the sensitivity of the information (firearms owners), (their addresses) provides all that is required for the commission of crimes as a direct result if the provided database is hacked, contrary to expressed police policy. I would suspect also from responses here from MET 'customers' that not a one has given permission for their data to be disclosed to a third party and also that no-one was asked for permission. Clear breaches, actionable, will it happen? Only a private prosecution under the DPA will result if someone (individual) stands up and has a go. Otherwise BASC, for an example might possibly lose its seat at the table and where would that put their marketing ? I find their creeping statement literally incredible perhaps they live on a different world? Were I affected I would take a private prosecution - do nothing and the transgression will become the norm.

 

[old man]

Seem to remember that a while ago there was a statement confirming the best security was anonymity?

kes, I have to agree that prosecution would be my remedy too, this is unbelievable.

 

[rodp]

Just out of curiosity, who would you prosecute? Is the chief constable liable for his staffs errors?

 

[JTO]

It could have been offered in a generally public way, WITHOUT selling or giving away sensitive info.

I can't understand your response to my comment. Has anyone ever been caught with a stolen item that the police have detected using a Smartwater digital signature?

 

[kes]

Just out of curiosity, who would you prosecute? Is the chief constable liable for his staffs errors?

You would sue the MET in the person of the Chief Constable. Simply put, yes the CC is. Interesting no-one has suggested contacting the minister or the IPCC ?

 

[finnbear270]

I can't understand your response to my comment. Has anyone ever been caught with a stolen item that the police have detected using a Smartwater digital signature?

Picked up the wrong quote box ...

 

[JTO]

30,000 London gun owners hit by Met Police 'data breach' • The Register

"A Met press officer did not immediately respond to our questions, saying that the key person responsible was on leave. The envelope containing the leaflet was stamped with a return address for "YDM", Bramley Business Centre, Leeds. A direct marketing company called Yes Direct Mail, based at the same address, acknowledged our call seeking comment and said its managing director was out of the office."

 

[I. Farticus]

UPDATE:
Response from Met - http://news.met.police.uk/news/crime-prevention-initiative-for-licensed-firearms-236571

 

[kes]

Rather an important last paragraph - the rest is mega spin.

 

[old man]

Just out of curiosity, who would you prosecute? Is the chief constable liable for his staffs errors?

I would take advice on all aspects of this, then proceed on their recommendation.

The usual outcome would probably be the corporate one, "that lessons have been learned"

Sadly as usual the damage will have been done and personal security lost.

 

[Flyer4u0]

You could always complain to the Independant Police Complaints Commision.

 

[old man]

You could always complain to the Independant Police Complaints Commision.

Thankfully not affecting me personally, my reply was in response to rodp.

 

[scubadog]

I just don't get the nets response.

They are determined to help us secure our houses and ask us to be vigilant.

Seriously?
What do you think is going to happen?

We live in a world where mass murders are carried out by cars and lorries.
Knife crime has become common place; it is almost accepted by society as every day activity, since most stabbings don't make the new headlines.
Today I read that acid attacks have risen by 30%.....A solution open for anyone to buy and carry.


Yet, the met seem to think above all of these, we or at least the items we posses locked away in cabinets are the risk to society that is worth pursuing.

Between this incident and the rise of unannounced visits (aka searches without warrants) it's hard to see how the police are actually trying to engage with us.

It's even harder to try and have any sympathy to an institution that focuses more attention on my way of life than all of the above violent crime.

 

[Pedro]

I just don't get the nets response.

They are determined to help us secure our houses and ask us to be vigilant.

Seriously?
What do you think is going to happen?

We live in a world where mass murders are carried out by cars and lorries.
Knife crime has become common place; it is almost accepted by society as every day activity, since most stabbings don't make the new headlines.
Today I read that acid attacks have risen by 30%.....A solution open for anyone to buy and carry.


Yet, the met seem to think above all of these, we or at least the items we posses locked away in cabinets are the risk to society that is worth pursuing.

Between this incident and the rise of unannounced visits (aka searches without warrants) it's hard to see how the police are actually trying to engage with us.

It's even harder to try and have any sympathy to an institution that focuses more attention on my way of life than all of the above violent crime.

It's the captive audience syndrome. Whether they give your details to anyone else or not, they know where all the firearms in private hands are and it's an easy thing to target them, thus being able to show how proactive they are.

Targeting the other threats you mention isn't so easy. Which, in my view is actually all the more reason to be doing it. How about a campaign for vehicle drivers to ensure security of their vehicles? I wonder how many van drivers, when dropping off your latest Amazon purchase take their keys out. How many lorry drivers when backed into a loading bay ensure their vehicle can't be stolen. To be fair, the penalties for illegally having a knife are pretty comprehensive and the exceptions for carrying one are tight. But it still all relies on the police being out and about on patrol to be able to identify potential knife threats to be able to search people legally and if the police aren't there, for whatever reason, the strictest laws in the world won't be any use.