So . . . .

[Woodsmoke]

i think its time to close this thread, i could,nt give a **** where your from, what colour you are, what religion you are. as long as your a decent person. lets all get on with are life,s bs

Yes, it's beginning to get a wee bit bitter now, isn't it? Personally, I'm amazed and impressed that it's run on for so long, and I've really enjoyed reading some of the arguments from both camps (I'm a committed Leaver, incidentally).

I'd rather the thread was closed, too.

Incidentally, isn't 1360 posts some sort of SD record?

 

[User00025]

Now don't for goodness sake take this as racist cos it ain't. I am getting a little p'd off with Eire and it's Gov't. I cant see why there needs to be any sort of border as we have the wonderful Good Friday agreement and we are getting threats of conflict if a border is hardened. Mr Veruka and his mob are right up my snout at present with their demands. For God's sake Irish folk have always in my life had the right to live and vote in Britain and I have a great number of Irish friends (and one or two enemies oop North). What can we settle by means of a backstop that can't be settled now. If Eire is part of the EU and they want to subject us to further legalisation, then sod them treat their citizens to the same legislation as other Europeans and make them apply for domicile here. That would throw the cat amongst the pigeons, but if they want to interfere in our affairs and I am sorry for my friends I would castigate them for doing so. Any threats from anyone ref peace in the North would be dealt with in the same way as ISIS.

 

[mchughcb]

The ability to have dual passports and without much paperwork or approval reside in two countries may for some well heeled individuals be important. Infact it was the one thing that the owner of harrods couldn't buy - a UK passport lol!

However that means little the overwhelming majority wanting to exert more control over their country again. Democracy has spoken and I will respect it. The UK is not a backwater economy and people will want to trade.

 

[jimmy milnes]

Peers and MPs receiving millions in EU farm subsidies
Perhaps this could be an influential factor on how some PM''s stand on the subject

 

[JTO]

Peers and MPs receiving millions in EU farm subsidies
Perhaps this could be an influential factor on how some PM''s stand on the subject

The article mentions our MP, Richard Drax(27,500 acres), who is a leave campaigner and member of the ERG, I think.

 

[B&W FOX]

I'm sorry if my comment offended any one. It wasn't supposed to be taken personaly and it certainly wasnt written as a personal attack.l only made the comment in jest and to be taken as such.

 

[finnbear270]

TickTock TickTock.

 

[jimmy milnes]

TickTock TickTock.

I hope not it's a good thread on the whole.. I realise sometimes things get posted in haste as I've done it before myself, and with the new 15min edit rule it makes it impossible to change what's been put after a cup of tea and time to reflect

 

[mchughcb]

OK, you see, now you're really not being nice at all. And neither are the people telling us to book removal vans and tickets out. That's just saying you're more British than us, so we can go back to where we came from, although that happens to be here, as well as somewhere else. Once again: there is no conflict with having multiple identities, and it is an increasingly common thing, and it is valuable to have both an internal and external perspective on these matters. When people say that we miserable Remainers don't understand your point of view, they are quite wrong: we do. We just don't agree.

Not always. If you are a politician in Australia and literally 20 or so politicians in the last year, most with dual uk citizenship having broken the law, resigned their positions, renounced their other citizenship and re-run for election including our deputy prime minister.

The Australian constitution was setup so no conflict of interest in the national interest. Especially for politicians. I guess same for the masses situation if your country declares war. Which side are you on?

 

[Pine Marten]

I guess same for the masses situation if your country declares war. Which side are you on?

Ah, well, you see, that actual main point of the existence of the EU is to entangle nations so much that this pretty much can't happen. Coming from Alsace from my French side, I can't stress how in hugely in favour of this objective I am.

 

[Woodsmoke]

It's just occurred to me that, as the instigator of this thread, I haven't laid down my own reasons for wanting to leave the EU, so here goes.

We gain:

-Our EU membership fees, around £200 billion a year
-Our Independent Sovereignty, and freedom from laws set down by the EU (such as banana-curvature allowables )
-Control over immigration (including the freedom to deport undesirables without being overruled by the European Court of Human Rights, and the right to set limits on the automatic right to welfare)
-Less interfering workplace regulation (could be a pro or a con, time will tell)
-Trade costs set by the UK, including the levels of VAT
-Independence with regard to the Common Customs Tariff, and the ability to import form whichever markets we set trade deals with
-Independence from the Common Agricultural Policy (no more subsidies to foreign farming, and hopefully freedom form the farcical Fisheries Policy too)

I know there'll be arguments against these points, and people are welcome to hold their own views. These are mine, though

 

[User00025]

I'm sorry if my comment offended any one. It wasn't supposed to be taken personaly and it certainly wasnt written as a personal attack.l only made the comment in jest and to be taken as such.

And here's me thinking it was you leaving us.

 

[armo.]

the Alsace side of me tells me that people insisting on picking sides, languages, nationalities etc leads to bad juju.

No, the Germans invading countries and annexing territory that does not belong to them by force is bad juju.

Ah, well, you see, that actual main point of the existence of the EU is to entangle nations so much that this pretty much can't happen. Coming from Alsace from my French side, I can't stress how in hugely in favour of this objective I am.

You've mentioned the Alsace thing twice. Can I be so obvious to state that this national flaw - to invade your neighbour and annex their territory is historically, in recent European terms, largely a German one, and the first choice solution should not be to huddle together with the former aggressor in an enforced federation to prevent further invasion?

A more obvious solution would be to curb any "invade and annex" tendencies, which is precisely what the 1919 Treaty of Versailles and 1945 Potsdam Agreement sought to achieve.

 

[Pine Marten]

A more obvious solution would be to curb any "invade and annex" tendencies, which is precisely what the 1919 Treaty of Versailles and 1945 Potsdam Agreement sought to achieve.

The judgement of history hasn't been kind to the Versailles Treaty. Whence perhaps why after WW2, they decided to try something else. Whatever else you may say, ever since the Treaty of Rome, there's been no more fighting between France and Germany, to everyone's benefit. Previously, we always tried to prevent the next war by building the Maginot Line, or invading the Rhineland, buying shedloads of guns, etc. Didn't work. But bringing the two countries really close together, well, that's made war not only unthinkable but actually physically almost impossible. Which was the stated objective. So a result.

 

[oowee]

It's just occurred to me that, as the instigator of this thread, I haven't laid down my own reasons for wanting to leave the EU, so here goes.

We gain:

-Our EU membership fees, around £200 billion a year
-Our Independent Sovereignty, and freedom from laws set down by the EU (such as banana-curvature allowables )
-Control over immigration (including the freedom to deport undesirables without being overruled by the European Court of Human Rights, and the right to set limits on the automatic right to welfare)
-Less interfering workplace regulation (could be a pro or a con, time will tell)
-Trade costs set by the UK, including the levels of VAT
-Independence with regard to the Common Customs Tariff, and the ability to import form whichever markets we set trade deals with
-Independence from the Common Agricultural Policy (no more subsidies to foreign farming, and hopefully freedom form the farcical Fisheries Policy too)

I know there'll be arguments against these points, and people are welcome to hold their own views. These are mine, though

And that to me pretty much confirms how misguided the leave vote was. We want freedom. Stop whilst I wet myself laughing. The world is moving so fast that some cannot keep up and want to get off.
Even with hard Brexit this will not happen. We will sell ourselves out with the first and the second and the third trade deal. We will renegotiate worse terms with the EU than are on offer now. We will loose (are loosing services to Europe now) more service to Europe. We will import more workers from third world countries less likely to return at a later date and with larger family dependencies. Our farmers will loose in any opening up of agriculture to open competition. We will accept GM and other 3rd rate food stuffs.
I know there'll be arguments against these points, and people are welcome to hold their own views. These are mine, though

 

[Klenchblaize]

We want freedom. Stop whilst I wet myself laughing. The world is moving so fast that some cannot keep up and want to get off.

Top stuff!

How many days left until those who do step off get thrown into a dark & deep hedge?

K

 

[Klenchblaize]

We want freedom. Stop whilst I wet myself laughing. The world is moving so fast that some cannot keep up and want to get off.

K

 

[mchughcb]

Ah, well, you see, that actual main point of the existence of the EU is to entangle nations so much that this pretty much can't happen. Coming from Alsace from my French side, I can't stress how in hugely in favour of this objective I am.

Ok lucky you dodged answering that question. Might as well expand the EU east and south then until it overtakes the United nations. And then we have world peace as we all bow down one unelected official. What would be the appropriate title would we call that bureaucrat?

 

[Pine Marten]

Ok lucky you dodged answering that question.

In the incredibly unlikely and misguided situation where anyone at all would want me to fight for them, and that I had a choice in the matter, it would be a question of who was in the right, if anyone can be in the right if they've left things deteriorate so badly that it comes to that. But I have no unquestioning loyalty to a government just through an accident of birth. I certainly don't think any government can require me to risk my life to implement their policies. If people choose to do that as a profession, that's something else. But it's not the 19th Century anymore. War isn't a calamity that descends on Europe every couple of decades, similarly to the weather. If nothing else, this is a great achievement.

 

[Freeforester]

Care to discuss?