Softer-shooting than .308?

[Emilio]

Just borrow or loan a R8 with a thicker barrel or a heavier stock . shoot it with some 125 gr copper ( they should happily give you about 2400 j at 100 m ) and all recoil will be gone.
Personally I’d stick with the .308 win if I were you. I bet you that adding a few hundred grams to your rifle and reducing your bullets weight will have a way bigger effect than keeping the rifle the same and switching to some 6.5 mm chambering.

Kindest regards, Olaf

Problem is nobody we know has anything but a standard 308, especially not a Blaser.
and it is a bit late to change stock and changing barrel thickness will probably mean a 10 month wait or more....

Curious as to why you advise to stick to 308 if the choice is free? Do you prefer this calibre for hunting over something in 6.5?

 

[Emilio]

Ah. Alas I fear that the stock is the problem. My suggestion would be to contact Blaser, explain your accident and its result, and ask if they can re-stock the rifle to a type that weighs more or can with lead inserted be made to weigh more. Maybe their R8 Professional or Professional Hunter stock? I think if that was possible it may solve the problem?

This as below is your rifle?

It is the ultimate stock so not the lightest and stalking with a lot of wheight is also not really the best option for the same medical reasons. So light and low recoil is the advise, up to us to find the best compromise...

 

[nick.308]

Lots of good advice already mentioned but the laws of physics show that if you want least recoil then you need a heavier gun shooting a lighter bullet. So you choose whatever calibre you want but make sure its a heavy rifle set up shooting a low weight bullet for your species. Good luck

 

[nick.308]

Im sure thinking back to my school days Newtons Laws would show a 6.5 creedmoor shooting the same weight bullet as a .308 would have the same recoil assuming the rifles weigh the same and the bullets are going the same speed.

 

[Emilio]

Lots of good advice already mentioned but the laws of physics show that if you want least recoil then you need a heavier gun shooting a lighter bullet. So you choose whatever calibre you want but make sure its a heavy rifle set up shooting a low weight bullet for your species. Good luck

Which is better (the stock being kind of non-changable) with 6.5 as long as we are not reloading and still a little easier with 6.5 if we do start reloading, correct?

Greatfull for the advice, very helpfull input allready.

 

[Olaf]

Bit of a nerd also, so much appreciated.

We just starting of with hunting, but we will probably be hunting in NL (stangely enough likely hardest to get a chance here on bigger game), DE, FR and the UK to start of, so besides deer species (reds being the biggest) we will most likely be hunting boar also.

As stated we also shoot for sports, so softer loads are possible as long as they are perfectly stable. But I would prefer to not have to big of a difference if possible, to have a better feel with the riffle when hunting.

We have a new riffle on order and can choose from a lot of calibres. It is an extra, a gift from me to Sam, with the medical advice for low recoil in mind. We could even, after a little saving up, buy another 308 barrel should we go for another calibre now.

Please keep the feedback coming, it helps the decisionmaking proces along.

I hunt a lot in Germany and I’d instantly dismiss the 6.5 CM and 6.5x55 if you are planning on hunting wild boar. A . 308win with some 125 or 130 gr copper is a far better option and you will never ever have a shortage of ammunition choices. A 7x57 though, that’s doable, it’s a nice compromise but with good killing ability. Do a 7mm 120 gr barns ttsx at 3000fps nice and smooth and also deadly on wild boar from a highseat at night.

Kindest regards, Olaf

 

[Scipio]

Percieved recoil is not realy of interest I'm afraid. It's not a question of recoil adversity.
It is has been adviced to limit impact energy on the body as much as possible. So numbers are very relevant in this case......

Hello Emilio and Samantha,

Well in that case, and given that min caliber is fixed to 6.5 the main variable becomes:

- the powder capacity of the cartridge, or if you reload, (or can get someone to do it for you)

- the charge weight used for your loads.

Now if you prefer to if possible avoid changing barrels and/or you want to be sure to have a size of caliber that will be accepted for driven hunts also in central or eastern europe, maybe downloading your 308 a bit, and going with low for caliber bullet weights, (via solid monolithic projectiles for example) could be an option?
Or as Olaf mentioned, so could going with the 7x57, which should allow you to shoot a bullet of similar type and SD to your 30 cal, 20-25 grns lighter.


As for the case capacity of some of the more well known 6.5s, some of which could be options, here is a link:

Comparing All The 6.5mm Cartridges (That Actually Matter)

If you have been entertaining one of the numerous 6.5mm cartridges on the market today, we compare the most popular and viable ones for you here.

www.alloutdoor.com

the 7x57 has a case capacity of 59.5 grs of water according to xxlreloading.com https://www.xxlreloading.com/caliber-load-data/7-x-57

So quite similar to the 6.5x55, but will by nature be shooting somewhat heavier bullets to the 6,5s to obtain similar sectional densities. Still as mentioned 20-25 grn lower than the 30 cals though.

Best of luck!

 

[enfieldspares]

Im sure thinking back to my school days Newtons Laws would show a 6.5 creedmoor shooting the same weight bullet as a .308 would have the same recoil assuming the rifles weigh the same and the bullets are going the same speed.

It will 6.5mm have more recoil as the the base area of the bullet is a smaller diameter. Therefore needs more "oomph" to get the same velocity. The same as a 150 grain bullet in an 8x57 has less recoil than the same weight bullet fired at the same velocity in a .270 or even a .308 or .30/06.

 

[Emilio]

Im sure thinking back to my school days Newtons Laws would show a 6.5 creedmoor shooting the same weight bullet as a .308 would have the same recoil assuming the rifles weigh the same and the bullets are going the same speed.

But

I hunt a lot in Germany and I’d instantly dismiss the 6.5 CM and 6.5x55 if you are planning on hunting wild boar. A . 308win with some 125 or 130 gr copper is a far better option and you will never ever have a shortage of ammunition choices. A 7x57 though, that’s doable, it’s a nice compromise but with good killing ability. Do a 7mm 120 gr barns ttsx at 3000fps nice and smooth and also deadly on wild boar from a highseat at night.

Kindest regards, Olaf

Not much effort to try the copper in 308 if we can find them. Any recommandations for make/type?
Will also ask around for a 7mm to try from a reloader, but afraid it'll be a long shot (pun intended)

 

[nick.308]

Which is better (the stock being kind of non-changable) with 6.5 as long as we are not reloading and still a little easier with 6.5 if we do start reloading, correct?

Greatfull for the advice, very helpfull input allready.

Because the .308 bullets are likley to be going slower I think it would be better to stick with .308 calibre and make the rifle heavier by using a rifle with a heavy barrel. Attach a heavier scope, mounts, Bipod, moderator, sling, Then shoot 110gr bullets and fannys your aunt!
But the calibre doesnt really matter much

 

[nick.308]

It will 6.5mm have more recoil as the the base area of the bullet is a smaller diameter. Therefore needs more "oomph" to get the same velocity. The same as a 150 grain bullet in an 8x57 has less recoil than the same weight bullet fired at the same velocity in a .270 or even a .308 or .30/06.

the point Im making is that if your sending the same weight bullet at the same speed then the diameter of the bullet makes not one jot of a difference to the recoil.

 

[Scipio]

It will 6.5mm have more recoil as the the base area of the bullet is a smaller diameter. Therefore needs more "oomph" to get the same velocity. The same as a 150 grain bullet in an 8x57 has less recoil than the same weight bullet fired at the same velocity in a .270 or even a .308 or .30/06.

hello mate, i think i get you
buuuut, the other side of that coin is probably that for a 30 cal to obtain similar sectional densities or ballistic coeffecients to a 7mm cal or 6.5 you need to be shooting bullets that are about 20 and 40 grn heavier, respectively, in the end bringing recoil back up.

Shooting a light for a caliber non fragmenting non lead 30 cal bullet (that can do what is needed) in the 308 might be a possible best of both worlds though, for Samantha.

the point Im making is that if your sending the same weight bullet at the same speed then the diameter of the bullet makes not one jot of a difference to the recoil.

I am answering somewhat shortly here, to not risk bringing this thread too much ot, but though i also follow your logic, i suspect what enfieldspares is referring to, is that a 30 cal bullet of the same bullet weight and type to 6.5 one, or even to 7 mm, will due to an increased surface area towards the hot gas have a quicker energy transfer vs the smaller cals. And due to a sligthly reduced bullet surface area touching the rifling it might also well have a bit less friction. So all in all the 30 cal bullet of this example might accellerate slightly quicker and reach a lit bit higher max speeds than the smaller cals in regular length barrels if the same amount of powder charge is used, or obtain the same velocities but with slightly less powder used. And i do think grns of powder used effects the felt recoil, although maybe not actual one.
But anyways, that isnt what samantha is looking to address i believe.

 

[nick.308]

off the top of my head 6.5 calibre send bullets faster than .308 of the same weight. So by default the 6.5 calibre will always have more recoil unless you have a heavier rifle to compensate for this. That is why I think you are best sticking with the .308 if you are serious about getting the least amount of recoil.

 

[Malxwal]

Calculators I found online seem to think it's not really optimal. We have a standard Blaser 520 barrel with 1:11 twist and like tight grouping with the target shooting we do besides hunting.
I am not an expert, so if you have more info, please share.

11 twist shows a great stability factor for a Nosler 125 gr BT in Strelok. My own experience is the Sako 123gr and the Nosler 125gr bullets are great at sensible stalking ranges. I wouldn't use them on targets out beyond 250m though, I'd be jumping up to 160gr+ for that.

 

[Emilio]

If I understand correctly and remember my classes right:
E=mv2
action=-reaction.

So with factory loads this would mean looking at the data for available stabil bullets and doing the math? It is that simple?

 

[Emilio]

11 twist shows a great stability factor for a Nosler 125 gr BT in Strelok. My own experience is the Sako 123gr and the Nosler 125gr bullets are great at sensible stalking ranges. I wouldn't use them on targets out beyond 250m though, I'd be jumping up to 160gr+ for that.

Strelok is a reliable app for this type of calculations? If so, I will try install it and have a go myself.

 

[csl]

E=mv2

E=½MV²

 

[Malxwal]

Strelok is a reliable app for this type of calculations? If so, I will try install it and have a go myself.

Try using the Berger bullet stability calculator on the Berger Bullets website.

 

[Scipio]

But
Not much effort to try the copper in 308 if we can find them. Any recommandations for make/type?
Will also ask around for a 7mm to try from a reloader, but afraid it'll be a long shot (pun intended)

If you want to go down in weight for caliber, i suspect non fragmenting non leads like the fox classic hunters and barnes ttsx might be good initial options to look at.
But there are several threads on here discussing the different brands of non leads, and some of them might even be caliber specific too, i believe.

I doubt it will be a problem finding already loaded options for barnes in the NLs in 308, and maybe not fox either, as the 308 is so popular. In fact if you're not reloading, and cant find help for it either, that might be another reason to stay with the 308, if you're going for light for caliber non lead loads in the future.

 

[Emilio]

E=½MV²

Ah right, thanx!
Been a while so I got Albert mixed up in there....