Free home health care for the elderly. ********, pre free health care you paid for it. Now it's free. The total care package came to £600. Now hotel services in a care home cost 650 per week with free nursing care. Prices correct 8 years ago when my mother in law died. Free uni education, great. Tell that to council areas where people are living in abject poverty. Free school meals to all yet nothing on the table at home. They are buying your votes with your money and blaming Westminster.
Stamp Duty, Sporting Rates, and now Income Tax - when's the SNP going to stop
- Thread starter Heym SR20
- Start date
Highlandsjohn
Well-Known Member
Nothing to do with tourism. tens of thousands English move to, and set down roots in our great land. Please don't follow suit you would hate it..
To answer the original question, they'll stop when they've finished alienating the very people you'd think they'd be trying their damnedest to attract.
With the political, economic and (field) sporting upheaval taking place in Scotland at the moment you have to wonder why any high net-worth individual in their right mind would move there.
When it comes to raising income tax Scotland has a little over half the proportion of additional tax rate payers compared to the rest of the UK (0.7% compared to 1.1%). In round numbers that means Scotland has just 17,000 individuals who pay that additional tax rate. Not exactly a huge number - in fact you can forget Murrayfield as you could fit all 17,000 into Tynecastle! That same 17,000 contribute 13.9% of Scotland's income tax revenues, or just under £1.6bn per year out of a total income tax revenue of £11.3bn. For sure they may live lives detached from your and my version of reality, but that's still a tidy sum of money.
"Big deal", you might well say, "why should we care about those lucky ******** earning that kind of money?" As I see it this group probably represents those most likely to invest in Scottish estates since, let's face it, the quickest way to end up with a small fortune is to start with a large one and buy an estate in Scotland
So whilst changing Sporting Rates and offering Land Reform might sell well to the urban masses, for many of those high net-worth individuals with an interest in the countryside the odds are rapidly stacking up against investing in otherwise non-productive land in Scotland. After all, the chances are you'll eventually lose it.
So what happens as those rich elite head off to invest their ill-gotten gains elsewhere? Sadly more and more of the burden will have to fall on those who are already contributing a disproportionate share of income tax. Taxpayers with an annual income of between £20k and £50k already contribute 43.1% of income tax revenues in Scotland compared to 35.6% in the UK as a whole.
After more than 20 years of stalking in Scotland I've often dreamed about retiring there, as the people, the countryside and the culture take some beating - and I say that as someone who's been lucky enough to travel the world with my job. But with the way things look at the moment that dream is fading. I'm sure a lot of those in the SNP won't be losing sleep over that, not least that tiny but vocal minority who seem to have more than enough of their own "bile and bigotry" to heap on anyone unfortunate enough to have been born South of the border. Whilst England clearly has its fair share of similarly misguided individuals, they are not quite so common amongst our parliamentary representatives
The numbers, by the way, are there for all to see at http://www.parliament.scot/ResearchBriefingsAndFactsheets/S4/SB_15-72_Income_Tax_in_Scotland.pdf
With the political, economic and (field) sporting upheaval taking place in Scotland at the moment you have to wonder why any high net-worth individual in their right mind would move there.
When it comes to raising income tax Scotland has a little over half the proportion of additional tax rate payers compared to the rest of the UK (0.7% compared to 1.1%). In round numbers that means Scotland has just 17,000 individuals who pay that additional tax rate. Not exactly a huge number - in fact you can forget Murrayfield as you could fit all 17,000 into Tynecastle! That same 17,000 contribute 13.9% of Scotland's income tax revenues, or just under £1.6bn per year out of a total income tax revenue of £11.3bn. For sure they may live lives detached from your and my version of reality, but that's still a tidy sum of money.
"Big deal", you might well say, "why should we care about those lucky ******** earning that kind of money?" As I see it this group probably represents those most likely to invest in Scottish estates since, let's face it, the quickest way to end up with a small fortune is to start with a large one and buy an estate in Scotland
So whilst changing Sporting Rates and offering Land Reform might sell well to the urban masses, for many of those high net-worth individuals with an interest in the countryside the odds are rapidly stacking up against investing in otherwise non-productive land in Scotland. After all, the chances are you'll eventually lose it.
So what happens as those rich elite head off to invest their ill-gotten gains elsewhere? Sadly more and more of the burden will have to fall on those who are already contributing a disproportionate share of income tax. Taxpayers with an annual income of between £20k and £50k already contribute 43.1% of income tax revenues in Scotland compared to 35.6% in the UK as a whole.
After more than 20 years of stalking in Scotland I've often dreamed about retiring there, as the people, the countryside and the culture take some beating - and I say that as someone who's been lucky enough to travel the world with my job. But with the way things look at the moment that dream is fading. I'm sure a lot of those in the SNP won't be losing sleep over that, not least that tiny but vocal minority who seem to have more than enough of their own "bile and bigotry" to heap on anyone unfortunate enough to have been born South of the border. Whilst England clearly has its fair share of similarly misguided individuals, they are not quite so common amongst our parliamentary representatives
The numbers, by the way, are there for all to see at http://www.parliament.scot/ResearchBriefingsAndFactsheets/S4/SB_15-72_Income_Tax_in_Scotland.pdf
Very well said.
p.s. I am a patriotic Scotland bot most definitely not a Nationalist!
Druid
Well-Known Member
The trouble is mate that the nationalists have stolen your patriotism and unless you support the nationalist then you cannot be a real Scotsman.
I speak as a Welshman who has seen the same division generated by our own pathetic examples of humanity under the small minded banner of nationalists who are also socialists (national socialists?....from what I have seen they are pretty vicious racist pricks and have verbally abused my English wife whilst having never ventured outside their comfort zone of their heartland) otherwise known as Plaid Cymru.
they are pretty toothless thank god as most of the populated areas of Wales are not Welsh speaking and are labour (mining and heavy industry areas but rural are still conservative or sometimes liberal) but it still scares the crap out of me that we have such xenophobia in our small islands.
anyway, off to bed for me before I get fed up with human nature. Nos dda!
When Andy Murray wins he,s British ,when he lose,s the press says he,s scottish .I,ve been abused in wales by nationalist pr---s whilst on holiday well f u jack i aint been back and neither has my wallet .You want to so pathetic you dont get my holiday money to live on.I,m british as in Scottish dad ,mum,s family are irish and i was born in Yorkshire .My dads family is huge and hate mrs Krankie and her commies as people say they bribe voter,s with free everything but where is the money coming from.Of course anyone who puts this mess right is going to stop all the freebies YOU CANT AFFORD IT
The trouble is mate that the nationalists have stolen your patriotism and unless you support the nationalist then you cannot be a real Scotsman.
I speak as a Welshman who has seen the same division generated by our own pathetic examples of humanity under the small minded banner of nationalists who are also socialists (national socialists?....from what I have seen they are pretty vicious racist pricks and have verbally abused my English wife whilst having never ventured outside their comfort zone of their heartland) otherwise known as Plaid Cymru.
they are pretty toothless thank god as most of the populated areas of Wales are not Welsh speaking and are labour (mining and heavy industry areas but rural are still conservative or sometimes liberal) but it still scares the crap out of me that we have such xenophobia in our small islands.
anyway, off to bed for me before I get fed up with human nature. Nos dda!
Apparently so. The recent Independence referendum did a massive amount of damage in dividing the people and brought out the very worst in many of the "Braveheart" mob. No voters were branded unpatriotic and even traitors - and for what - want the best future for their country that's what.
Of course this rift has been dragged on and on by the "Yes " votes refusing to accept the democratic process.
McKenzie
Well-Known Member
For those that have the energy;
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/public-to-get-a-say-on-scots-government-s-land-ownership-reform-1-4319891
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/public-to-get-a-say-on-scots-government-s-land-ownership-reform-1-4319891
Truly frightening - you would have to be out of your mind to invest in Scottish land right now.
I was walking behind a couple of well-spoken chaps on an up-market shoot about 15 years ago and heard one of them say that, almost word-for-word.
To answer the original question, they'll stop when they've finished alienating the very people you'd think they'd be trying their damnedest to attract.
With the political, economic and (field) sporting upheaval taking place in Scotland at the moment you have to wonder why any high net-worth individual in their right mind would move there.
When it comes to raising income tax Scotland has a little over half the proportion of additional tax rate payers compared to the rest of the UK (0.7% compared to 1.1%). In round numbers that means Scotland has just 17,000 individuals who pay that additional tax rate. Not exactly a huge number - in fact you can forget Murrayfield as you could fit all 17,000 into Tynecastle! That same 17,000 contribute 13.9% of Scotland's income tax revenues, or just under £1.6bn per year out of a total income tax revenue of £11.3bn. For sure they may live lives detached from your and my version of reality, but that's still a tidy sum of money.
"Big deal", you might well say, "why should we care about those lucky ******** earning that kind of money?" As I see it this group probably represents those most likely to invest in Scottish estates since, let's face it, the quickest way to end up with a small fortune is to start with a large one and buy an estate in Scotland
So whilst changing Sporting Rates and offering Land Reform might sell well to the urban masses, for many of those high net-worth individuals with an interest in the countryside the odds are rapidly stacking up against investing in otherwise non-productive land in Scotland. After all, the chances are you'll eventually lose it.
So what happens as those rich elite head off to invest their ill-gotten gains elsewhere? Sadly more and more of the burden will have to fall on those who are already contributing a disproportionate share of income tax. Taxpayers with an annual income of between £20k and £50k already contribute 43.1% of income tax revenues in Scotland compared to 35.6% in the UK as a whole.
After more than 20 years of stalking in Scotland I've often dreamed about retiring there, as the people, the countryside and the culture take some beating - and I say that as someone who's been lucky enough to travel the world with my job. But with the way things look at the moment that dream is fading. I'm sure a lot of those in the SNP won't be losing sleep over that, not least that tiny but vocal minority who seem to have more than enough of their own "bile and bigotry" to heap on anyone unfortunate enough to have been born South of the border. Whilst England clearly has its fair share of similarly misguided individuals, they are not quite so common amongst our parliamentary representatives
The numbers, by the way, are there for all to see at http://www.parliament.scot/ResearchBriefingsAndFactsheets/S4/SB_15-72_Income_Tax_in_Scotland.pdf
I know or a number of people (on particularly high earners) that has sold up in the Borders to go and live in Cumbria or Northumberland.
And within 3 generations, it will all by owned in similar proportions as it is now. Those that can't see further than their next drink/fix etc, will sell to the highest bidder, who will probably be a politician or a drug dealer or a bookmaker or a footballer............
We are already seeing community buy outs failing.
Communities get together with great ideas and gutso. They have a great vision and apply for public funds to mount a buy out. This is successful and all goes swimming for a few years. The original drivers of the community bid move way/die/lose enthusiasm. The new committee don't have the same drive/enthusiasm/ability and all goes pear shaped. A public body/funds step in to sort things out. life looks up. the community want more say again Groundhog day.
Communities get together with great ideas and gutso. They have a great vision and apply for public funds to mount a buy out. This is successful and all goes swimming for a few years. The original drivers of the community bid move way/die/lose enthusiasm. The new committee don't have the same drive/enthusiasm/ability and all goes pear shaped. A public body/funds step in to sort things out. life looks up. the community want more say again Groundhog day.
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
Am watching the wheels come off one in the islands at the moment.
campaigned for years, wanted to cash in on the forestry
manage drive by the "community", made a complete Horlicks of it, ended up cutting too much down, price of timber shifted and they couldn't afford to pay the contractors, so now they have a load of wood cut sitting out in piles rotting because they can't afford to shift it
place looks like a scene from the Somme, already a loss making venture being mismanaged and an environmental disaster.
if this is the future for Scotland I will have to leave am afraid
its heart breaking to watch when the changes being proposed actually look more dangerous when many tracts of land have no "crop" so will be abandoned
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Doesn't really say an awful lot in the article, and to be honest will it make any difference wot the 'people' think? It didn't when 90% of folk objected to the airgun ban.
Hopefully they will get some experts in who know wot there talking about and actually listen to them (which is doubtful) but the reason why upland estates are so vast is there generally rubbish ground, so takes massive areas to have enough sheep to need a shepherd and pay his wage some hill farms can be 10'000 acres alone.
I really don''t have a problem with 'toff's' owning vast areas of ground, and to be honest the 'toff's' that use it as a 'plaything' (which is often the snp's main gripe) usually have the estate in the best condition as they're throwing money at it and not expecting any return.
Often the estates where they need to generate a profit can be quite run down sometimes, althou not always.
Plus the plaything toffs (for want of a better description) are bringing different/extra money in wether from city/inheritance etc that wouldn't otherwise be spent in rural scotland.
The estates running normally for a profit are just recycling the same pot of agri money, SFP/grants/sheep sales holding it for a bit before giving it back to the feed merchants, machinery/quad bikes,, fencers
Must admit i'd possibly be more worried if i was a large landlord with loads of letting properties, to my mind thats a bigger problem and would benefit the 'people' of scotland more than splitting up massive estates. Plus with property letting almost every property should be making a tidy profit so u don't need tens or hundreds to make money
More people ownig affordable houses would be a better thing tham giving everyone an acre of uselss peat bog that most would never see
The money offered to community groups is absolutely crazy, the new town where i've just moved too are trying to buy a wood behind it, just can't see the point. The landowner already has put in some decent paths right round it and maintains them, plus with the right to roam anyway.
Not sure his forestry plan as just been clear felled but it would not surprise me if he didn't plant it commercially this rotation as an absolute pig of a bit to get too with artics too get woods out (throu very narrow housed streets) which i don't imagine will improve in next 40 yrs, and the machines were vandalised a few times with the forwarder getting burnt out eventually.
Just can't see the point in owning the wood when u were using for free anyway so absol;utely no costs
As for the OP, i'm sure if u went to almost any big town/city u could encounter most of the problems ur talking about, some poor schools, houses too dear and having to communte to earn the big money. Even folk in london i've heard of them getting up at 6am to travel into the city is it really a big deal wether u leave edin at 6 or some town outside london at 6 to train/bus/drive it in.
Its a shame u feel u have to private school them, but i'm assuming u hope they go to uni further down the line, in england it could cost u 9k a year to go to some crappy tech college, where here u could go to St andrews uni for free, thats almost 40K ur saving there straight off
And really the bg moan, it only effects u if ur earning either 43 or 44K and u will be roughly 300 quid worse off, if ur earniing 45+K u will be taxed the same both sides of the border.
Dunno if that 300 quid is really going to drive these 'high earners' away, and to be honest any company/boss with any sense would alter the pay to suit, ie just under the bracket or over the english bracket so in actual fact u never will be paying more tax than u did in england.
The snp are terrible but atleast kick them for things they deserved to be kicked for
Hopefully they will get some experts in who know wot there talking about and actually listen to them (which is doubtful) but the reason why upland estates are so vast is there generally rubbish ground, so takes massive areas to have enough sheep to need a shepherd and pay his wage some hill farms can be 10'000 acres alone.
I really don''t have a problem with 'toff's' owning vast areas of ground, and to be honest the 'toff's' that use it as a 'plaything' (which is often the snp's main gripe) usually have the estate in the best condition as they're throwing money at it and not expecting any return.
Often the estates where they need to generate a profit can be quite run down sometimes, althou not always.
Plus the plaything toffs (for want of a better description) are bringing different/extra money in wether from city/inheritance etc that wouldn't otherwise be spent in rural scotland.
The estates running normally for a profit are just recycling the same pot of agri money, SFP/grants/sheep sales holding it for a bit before giving it back to the feed merchants, machinery/quad bikes,, fencers
Must admit i'd possibly be more worried if i was a large landlord with loads of letting properties, to my mind thats a bigger problem and would benefit the 'people' of scotland more than splitting up massive estates. Plus with property letting almost every property should be making a tidy profit so u don't need tens or hundreds to make money
More people ownig affordable houses would be a better thing tham giving everyone an acre of uselss peat bog that most would never see
The money offered to community groups is absolutely crazy, the new town where i've just moved too are trying to buy a wood behind it, just can't see the point. The landowner already has put in some decent paths right round it and maintains them, plus with the right to roam anyway.
Not sure his forestry plan as just been clear felled but it would not surprise me if he didn't plant it commercially this rotation as an absolute pig of a bit to get too with artics too get woods out (throu very narrow housed streets) which i don't imagine will improve in next 40 yrs, and the machines were vandalised a few times with the forwarder getting burnt out eventually.
Just can't see the point in owning the wood when u were using for free anyway so absol;utely no costs
As for the OP, i'm sure if u went to almost any big town/city u could encounter most of the problems ur talking about, some poor schools, houses too dear and having to communte to earn the big money. Even folk in london i've heard of them getting up at 6am to travel into the city is it really a big deal wether u leave edin at 6 or some town outside london at 6 to train/bus/drive it in.
Its a shame u feel u have to private school them, but i'm assuming u hope they go to uni further down the line, in england it could cost u 9k a year to go to some crappy tech college, where here u could go to St andrews uni for free, thats almost 40K ur saving there straight off
And really the bg moan, it only effects u if ur earning either 43 or 44K and u will be roughly 300 quid worse off, if ur earniing 45+K u will be taxed the same both sides of the border.
Dunno if that 300 quid is really going to drive these 'high earners' away, and to be honest any company/boss with any sense would alter the pay to suit, ie just under the bracket or over the english bracket so in actual fact u never will be paying more tax than u did in england.
The snp are terrible but atleast kick them for things they deserved to be kicked for
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
The land reform applies to both urban and large rural land and buildings. So it applies not just to large owners but to any who own their own property. Especially to any who may be moving because of work etc and need to let a property for a while. Also to any who have property as part of an investment portfolio, or have a cottage somewhere etc. There are undoubtedly some appalling landlords who just try extort maximimum out of tenants for nothing, often hiding behind a factoring company. Also have a proper land registry is a good thing so that there is clear register of who owns what. But I don't trust the SNP nor those behind it. It won't help those who it's designed to help, it will just be a land redistribution to SNP supporters.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Must admit i'm quite pleased and surprised it applies to all properties, and not just land which is wot i was expecting and is the type of 'toff' bashing u'd expect from snp.
Plus i'd imagine a few mp's/msp's could be affected if it starts targeting bigger landlords.
Has 1 msp not already in bother/prosectued for dodgy dealing buying property, yet hardly makes the papers, if that ewas a tory it would br plastered everywhere
I really can't see them targeting folk with a holiday house or a couple of let properties as a pension plan, or at least i'd hope not but u never know with that lot() but more so the big boys who own tens or hundreds.
But even that isn't really fair, some folk will have worked bloody hard to build up wot ever portfolio they have got.
I know with the land buy outs they were talking about having safeguards that u have to prove land not been fully used to its whole potential. But it is very easy to come out with grand plans for a worthless piece of ground that the land owner already knows won't work or he would of tried it.
When they 1st got a bit of power they changed a lot of the laws reguarding agri tennancy's making it a lot easier for farmers to buy there rented farms, all thats has happened is estates now have changed the way they rent farms so ur no longer a sitting tennant. Makes it really hard for any new starts to get into farming
Usually farms only let on a yearly/5 yearly cylce which is not ideal or give much security when ur trying to improve ur herd or invest in sheds/tractors. Some farms are even let in 2 parts and they have to have all stock off 1 side for 1 day/1month a year then swap sides to break the tennancy.
So really farmers are in a far worse position than they were
Plus i'd imagine a few mp's/msp's could be affected if it starts targeting bigger landlords.
Has 1 msp not already in bother/prosectued for dodgy dealing buying property, yet hardly makes the papers, if that ewas a tory it would br plastered everywhere
I really can't see them targeting folk with a holiday house or a couple of let properties as a pension plan, or at least i'd hope not but u never know with that lot() but more so the big boys who own tens or hundreds.
But even that isn't really fair, some folk will have worked bloody hard to build up wot ever portfolio they have got.
I know with the land buy outs they were talking about having safeguards that u have to prove land not been fully used to its whole potential. But it is very easy to come out with grand plans for a worthless piece of ground that the land owner already knows won't work or he would of tried it.
When they 1st got a bit of power they changed a lot of the laws reguarding agri tennancy's making it a lot easier for farmers to buy there rented farms, all thats has happened is estates now have changed the way they rent farms so ur no longer a sitting tennant. Makes it really hard for any new starts to get into farming
Usually farms only let on a yearly/5 yearly cylce which is not ideal or give much security when ur trying to improve ur herd or invest in sheds/tractors. Some farms are even let in 2 parts and they have to have all stock off 1 side for 1 day/1month a year then swap sides to break the tennancy.
So really farmers are in a far worse position than they were
Blackpowder
Well-Known Member
Or the wicked witch from the west"me included at less than 1/2 of that",
Same here !
"The lizard lipped witch of the north"
Blackpowder
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