Straight pull or bolt action
- Thread starter happyhunt
- Start date
Hope you will excuse my lack of broad-based knowledge here 'mchughcb' but I had difficulty in identifying exactly WHICH rifles were being busted open in that video clip, and which ones sustained damage (perhaps?) but survived more or less intact. Could you assist and translate the results here for me (and others?) please?
Also, does/did this clip answer in any way my query in the post immediately above please??
Thanks in advance,
ATB ..... and shoot safely
The straightpull blaser is at 41 seconds, and it survives! Looks to me like most of the survivors are the European rifles, blaser, Sako, tikka, sauer?...
Ronin
Distinguished Member
The series of videos done by Mr mortlock is very detailed and informative , the guy has detailed knowledge of the brand and system and is a source of further info not posted within the videos
Yup - burst test was one of the facets of the military test I referred to (not the test shown in the video)
If you look back at the earlier posts there were two safety critical issues with this system which caused them to be removed from the testing
One magazine based one sear pin based
The former not likely to affect a sporting R93 , the latter possibly - as it has the very same components as the LRS, LrS2 and Tactical 2 with regards bolt, bolt head, trigger, trigger sear pin ,,,,,
Neither had anything to do with burst from plugged barrel
Alan in an earlier post has tried to replicate the sear pin “fail” and did not succeed
That’s great , but the simple fact is during extensive testing, two flaws that were safety critical were found - causing them to be removed from further consideration
It may be that military testing far exceeds what may be expected of a deer stalker in real world conditions
We don’t after all sometimes crawl through mud and detritus to get into a suitable firing position, we don’t have weapon exposed to the elements for extended periods, we don’t rely on the weapons to work in any weather condition
We all want the sear to engage when closing the bolt on a live round
Yup - burst test was one of the facets of the military test I referred to (not the test shown in the video)
If you look back at the earlier posts there were two safety critical issues with this system which caused them to be removed from the testing
One magazine based one sear pin based
The former not likely to affect a sporting R93 , the latter possibly - as it has the very same components as the LRS, LrS2 and Tactical 2 with regards bolt, bolt head, trigger, trigger sear pin ,,,,,
Neither had anything to do with burst from plugged barrel
Alan in an earlier post has tried to replicate the sear pin “fail” and did not succeed
That’s great , but the simple fact is during extensive testing, two flaws that were safety critical were found - causing them to be removed from further consideration
It may be that military testing far exceeds what may be expected of a deer stalker in real world conditions
We don’t after all sometimes crawl through mud and detritus to get into a suitable firing position, we don’t have weapon exposed to the elements for extended periods, we don’t rely on the weapons to work in any weather condition
We all want the sear to engage when closing the bolt on a live round
mchughcb
Well-Known Member
mchughcb
Well-Known Member
I do.
It is certainly strong enough to withstand a blocked barrel. See below. It does seem to cause controversy though.
I have the opposite personal feeling...
I have always liked the Blaser's radial collet because I think it is a lot stronger and balanced than the two or three lug system of the turn bolt. Sharp 90˚ internal angles in blacksmithing is a 101 no no, they are prone to cracking through subsequent stress. The sharp root of turn bolt lugs I have always been uncomfortable with for that reason...
The video is from the Swedish Test Lab. The link to the written report is in my earlier post #32 in this thread...the rifles that failed were Remington 700 and the Browning. The Blaser R93 passed as did most others.
Straight pull or bolt action
I have and use both I can't comment on whether Blaser is prone to more problems due to dust but, if they are, that would certainly be a factor in my choice for a rifle in dry dusty conditions Certainly people have commented often on the effect of dust on the tight fitting bolt of a bolt...
www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk
Here is the link to the text from the test...you can copy and paste any text into Google Translate...or visit the site with the Chrome Browser which will do it automatically....
Här exploderar älgstudsaren under testet - Testfakta
Fastnar kulan i loppet vill du inte stå med det här vapnet i handen. Två av älgstudsarna klarade inte sprängtestet, när Testfakta lät Försvarets Materielverk prova åtta jaktvapen. I testet som helhet blev det billigaste geväret bäst.
The chart shows the blocked barrel pressure test (sprangtest) bottom line...
Alan
The magazine issue is specific to the military rifle as you say the R93 does not have a removable magazine...
Are you sure the hunting R93 shares the same trigger mechanism? I don't see how it can. The trigger is not directly under the bolt nor forward of the sear as it is with the hunting R93, but set 50mm further back, behind the bolt in order to accommodate the removable magazine. This places it behind the sear so something in the mechanism must be different?
That difference may also account for the discrepancy between the description that you friend posted about the trigger pin sticking down...
Alan
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Orion
Well-Known Member
Would you be happy with the seven lug lock-up of the Merkel Helix? A bit like a miniaturised artillery breech.
I’ve always been a bit suspicious of the Blaser R93 collet’s ability to deal with forces coming from the rear of the bolt, as in a catastrophic cartridge failure with gases venting into the action (if it’s possible?). If one or more ‘fingers’ detached or deformed, would the rest be able to keep the bolt in battery? And, if it wasn’t a potential issue, why did they substantially change that area with the introduction of the R8 - which I have no doubt fully addresses any such concerns?
Perhaps some straight pull designs do have upper pressure limits. Not so the Blaser which retains the same bolt-breech-barrel design all the way through its range including the .500 Jeffery.I have fired the Blaser .500 Jeffery so can testify first hand to its solidity and ease of shooting.
I am not "unhappy" with any rifle bolt whether turn or straight pull...they all should be well over engineered for their function. I just like the Blaser radial collet system as I think that distributes pressures most evenly and concentrically. I like other things about the Blaser configuration like the de-cocking system and everything hanging directly off the barrel. Bolt, Scope and Stock, which added to my reasons to have one. Speed of reloading was not one of them.
That Merkel bolt-head looks like it would be strong once it is in place. What is the mechanism that converts the forward motion of the bolt into the rotary one of the breech lock? That would be the weak area that I would be focussing on with that design. What if it fails? How do you know the if the bolt is forward but not rotated into battery? The lugs there do seem to have a fine radius at their root but a larger one would be stronger and less likely to shear in the way I referred to earlier. I can also imagine it more difficult to achieve the tolerances required to match the even distribution of the pressure between the bearing surfaces when they are not in a single plane.
I am sure however that Merkel will have gone through much development of the system to ensure it is failsafe, just like Blaser will have done.
Given that Swedish test I linked to up above, I have always been a bit suspicious of why Remington and Browning (and their users) have been so blasé about the blow up and weakness of their rifles when the far more likely problem of a blocked barrel occurs.
I can't answer for why Blaser developed their design, but I can imagine that maybe they wanted to beef it up in order to be able to offer rifles with higher pressure/magnum chamberings than the R93 was designed for?
There is a gas vent in the Blaser bolts so gas from a burst primer could vent before it got to the collet fingers.
But as soon as one starts talking of "catastrophic failure" of components I think the outcome in any rifle is up for grabs isn't it? If one of the lugs on a two lug bolt failed, you have lost 50% of your pressure holding strength, would the other lug be able to hold the now eccentric load in event of a catastrophic failure...who knows?
As @Blobby159 signs off...
ATB...and shoot safely!
Alan
Interestingly, I went to have a look at the Merkel on you tube to see if I could discover how the rotating mechanism worked and someone in the comment section said Merkel okay but you should see the Semprio
This maybe something for the OP to consider I don't think it has been mentioned on this thread before...bolt stays still barrel and forend move on a pump action!
Alan
This maybe something for the OP to consider I don't think it has been mentioned on this thread before...bolt stays still barrel and forend move on a pump action!
Alan
reiver
Well-Known Member
Probably because they are section 5 in the uk just like all cf pump action/ semi auto rifles.
hedge hunter
Well-Known Member
Thought about replacing all my rifles .all sako 75 custom jobs .for a blaser .to be able too store barrels and one action appeals too me
Steve,
The Blaser is an excellent rifle, and whilst the Blaser saddle mounts are very expensive, it's uncanny how they hold zero.
hedge hunter
Well-Known Member
Going for it .makes sense too me
mchughcb
Well-Known Member
I almost bought a Semprio. I had a play with one for 30 minutes but ended up with my R93. The Semprio is not very popular and the action is not like the Remington 7600 which are very popular here. The magazine is not easily detachable like the 7600 but it definitely doesn't rattle either. The Blaser system is more widespread and picking up a second hand barrel in the calibre you want later one is always attractive. Having said all of that, if a Semprio comes up for sale at a cheap enough price in a 30 cal then I'd seriously consider it. But for serious bush bashing, back of the ute throwing, then a blaser synthetic is the way to go.
Yup. Some pretty amazing machine tolerances there. Recently I switched my Z6i between two Blasers. I had to re-zero to use the scope on the second rifle but marked the settings used on the first before I did that.
After two weeks use on that second rifle, I restored it to the first rifle and set the elevation and windage back to values that suit that chambering. My first test shot after restoring the scope to the original rifle punched the bullseye at 100m. Seriously impressed.
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