Substantial, huh?

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1000kilograhams

Active Member
My local police have said something which feels a little off so I wanted to run it by you fart smellers on here 👍

This was direct, not hearsay.

So the Home Office guidelines say holding "a substantial number" of firearms can require enhanced security and individual Police approval, we've all heard this and I guess it is what it is...

Previous clarification from the HO years ago and what I've seen and heard over the years, "substantial" was generally taken to mean double digits, or close to it, and most police forces understood this.

My local police force have said that their idea of substantial is... 5.

I do appreciate "enhanced security" can be simple and low cost these days, but to me this isn't really the point.

I know they've got us by the balls and I'm not looking to start an argument with them, I also try my best to stay out of an us and them mindset, but it seems somewhat contradictory and again it just seems odd to me.

I currently have 4 as recently I've been more focussed on playing with motorbikes and finishing off some long term project cars which will be sold, but I don't like the idea of simply adding one more rifle or simple SGC shotgun meaning I'm legally obliged to do more than keep the house locked and keep things in locked safes which the police have already inspected.

Just interested in your opinions so thanks in advance.
 
I think the interpretation as to whether you need additional levels of security is based more on crime levels in your area than the actual number of firearms that you hold. Hence why, in some areas, a smaller number of firearms might trigger the request for extra security to be installed, wheras in other areas you could be well into the double figures and still not be asked to add further security measures.
 
1000kilograhams said:
My local police have said something which feels a little off so I wanted to run it by you fart smellers on here 👍

This was direct, not hearsay.

So the Home Office guidelines say holding "a substantial number" of firearms can require enhanced security and individual Police approval, we've all heard this and I guess it is what it is...

Previous clarification from the HO years ago and what I've seen and heard over the years, "substantial" was generally taken to mean double digits, or close to it, and most police forces understood this.

My local police force have said that their idea of substantial is... 5.

I do appreciate "enhanced security" can be simple and low cost these days, but to me this isn't really the point.

I know they've got us by the balls and I'm not looking to start an argument with them, I also try my best to stay out of an us and them mindset, but it seems somewhat contradictory and again it just seems odd to me.

I currently have 4 as recently I've been more focussed on playing with motorbikes and finishing off some long term project cars which will be sold, but I don't like the idea of simply adding one more rifle or simple SGC shotgun meaning I'm legally obliged to do more than keep the house locked and keep things in locked safes which the police have already inspected.

Just interested in your opinions so thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
They should make it a Max of 6 firearms across the UK :tiphat: then people can have one for
Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
Saturday
Day off on Sunday :rofl:
 
Enhanced security for larger amounts of firearms isn’t really onerous, they’re not looking for anything that’s beyond someone with a few DIY skills to install some motion lights, alarm and cameras. Plenty of good options out there and goes hand in hand with responsible firearm ownership in my opinion.
 
BCH requested I install an alarm system when I reached 10 firearms. It didn't need to be professionally monitored, but they wanted it to notify me, if it went off.

They were pretty laid back about it, but I don't know if this is the norm.

Personally, I think this is perfectly reasonable. I bought a YALE alarm, and it only requires a few PIR's, and a couple of door sensors to cover the house. No wires, other than mains, and WI-FI.

They are regularly on Ebay really cheap.
 

Paragraph 1.7 is the starting point.

Part 2 then sets out detail.

Paragraph 2.18 identifies Level 2 measures which may be considered.

Paragraph 2.21 is the key one for you - especially the highlighted text.

Read the guidance & set up your security, specific to your circumstances, using the layer system to reduce risk. You might also like to research crime levels in your area compared to the wider force area & other areas they cover to show you’ve done your due diligence & assesed the risk before deciding which of the layers would be most effective for you. For example an audible alarm would be a waste of time if you lived in a remote property with no neighbours within earshot. Even a monitored alarm might not be that much use if the response times are too long. Using an external grade door & locks on an internal room with no outside walls would provide much higher security by comparison.

It’s not rocket science &, as others have said, it shows you're a responsible firearms owner.

If you think you're going to have a problem with renewal or variation then speak to your ‘organisation’ of choice well ahead of time & prepare for what might get thrown at you & have reasoned answers ready, along with questions to ask the FLO that will get you answers that’ll assist you.
 
Cyres said:
I think in A@S it's 10 or possibly 12.
A simple house alarm with sensors is all that's is required.
D
Click to expand...

As others say, have a look at this:


And in particular 2.12 et al

Para 2.24 is critical noting that spare barrels, cylinders, sound moderators, etc do not count to the number.

As @Cyres advises, A&S generally work to 12 but as @VSS advises, where you live, the type of building, neighbourhood, crime rate, etc, all have to be factored in. Are the premises routinely occupied, are there dogs present, is CCTV fitted, etc. All contribute to a layered and appropriate level of security.
 
Donkey Basher said:

Paragraph 1.7 is the starting point.

Part 2 then sets out detail.

Paragraph 2.18 identifies Level 2 measures which may be considered.

Paragraph 2.21 is the key one for you - especially the highlighted text.

Read the guidance & prepare your case explaining how you are using the layer system to reduce risk. You might also like to research crime levels in your area compared to the wider force area & other areas they cover to show you’ve done your due diligence & assesed the risk before deciding which of the layers would be most effective for you. For example an audible alarm would be a waste of time if you lived in a remote property with no neighbours within earshot. Even a monitored alarm might not be that much use if the response times are too long. Using an external grade door & locks on an internal room with no outside walls would provide much higher security by comparison.

If you think you're going to have a problem with renewal or variation then speak to your ‘organisation’ of choice well ahead of time & prepare for what might get thrown at you & have reasoned answers ready, along with questions to ask the FLO that will get you answers that’ll assist you.
Click to expand...
Our replies crossed:tiphat:
 
Thames Valley Police want an alarm installed when you get to 12, shotguns and rifles inclusive. Alarm already installed so not a problem, just ticking boxes exercise.
Living in secluded area taken into account plus having dogs on the loose also counted. At last home visit I left my dogs out,waited for him to turn up then whistled dogs and kennelled them. Large muddy dog footprints mainly on the driver's door and window convinced him that they meant business of he'd have exited the vehicle,that ticked another box.
 
I think having a bit of security in the house to notify if you are out is pretty reasonable and common sense these days, even if you only have a couple of guns in the house or even if you don't have guns for that matter!

All pretty cheap and easy these days if you get a 12year old to set it up for you.
 
Cyres said:
I think in A@S it's 10 or possibly 12.
A simple house alarm with sensors is all that's is required.
D
Click to expand...
I like that reply, I was trying to leave them out of it but it was an A&S FLO who told me this 🤣

For clarity there's very little crime where I am, certainly by todays standards, and I'm not some city dweller 👍

I do actually have blink cameras with recording and phone notification of activation here, my old man is loving with us, two dogs here one of which will not tolerate anyone unduly opening the front or rear gate without gobbing off, so it's a bit of a non-issue for me personally but it seemed a bit keen in general to call 5 substantial.
 
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