I went from lead to copper .308 and the first round I tried worked fine but maybe I was lucky! I was using Sako Gamehead 123gr then moved to Fox 130gr and I can get it to group better than the lead in my Parker Hale. I can’t really tell the difference in terminal ballistics on roe after maybe 50 roe deer or so?
Switching to Non-toxic
- Thread starter Ali Pasha
- Start date
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Key for stability is bullet length vs calibre and twist rate.
In 308 Win, 1 in 10” twist is a very popular twist rate. Most 308s will happily shoot 165 and 180 grain bullets Traditional lead cored bullets well enough.
Most copper bullets are the same length as the next size up of lead. So a 130gn Copper bullet will be same sort of length as the 150 gn lead bullets.
Of course thats an approximation as bullets of same weight all vary in length according to brand / design.
The Fox Bullets are a flat based, cone point bullet, so tend to be quite short for length compared to sleek boat tail designs. But as a consequence they tend to shoot well. 130 gn shoot faster and flatter, with less recoil than the 150’s. But the 150’s have bigger thump / energy and will retain energy for longer, but if you look at the ballistics charts there is bugger all real life difference out to 200 odd metres.
With copper bullets no real difference on the smaller deer. They die. With the bigger deer you do need to make sure your bullet goes through the front of the chest cavity where aorta, heart, major bundles of nerves etc all located.
Copper bullets penetrate very well. They don’t fragment / explode like many of the lead core bullets. If you put a copper bullet through the lungs just in front of diaphragm on a large red stag, it may go quite a way before it expires - a lead bullet will make more of a mess.
In 308 Win, 1 in 10” twist is a very popular twist rate. Most 308s will happily shoot 165 and 180 grain bullets Traditional lead cored bullets well enough.
Most copper bullets are the same length as the next size up of lead. So a 130gn Copper bullet will be same sort of length as the 150 gn lead bullets.
Of course thats an approximation as bullets of same weight all vary in length according to brand / design.
The Fox Bullets are a flat based, cone point bullet, so tend to be quite short for length compared to sleek boat tail designs. But as a consequence they tend to shoot well. 130 gn shoot faster and flatter, with less recoil than the 150’s. But the 150’s have bigger thump / energy and will retain energy for longer, but if you look at the ballistics charts there is bugger all real life difference out to 200 odd metres.
With copper bullets no real difference on the smaller deer. They die. With the bigger deer you do need to make sure your bullet goes through the front of the chest cavity where aorta, heart, major bundles of nerves etc all located.
Copper bullets penetrate very well. They don’t fragment / explode like many of the lead core bullets. If you put a copper bullet through the lungs just in front of diaphragm on a large red stag, it may go quite a way before it expires - a lead bullet will make more of a mess.
Interesting observations. Thank you.
Forget all you know about weighs and twist rates that we had before copper . I generally shoot bullets on or near to 100 grain copper for big stags ( also some 120 but thats my second choice ) impact speed is important with a 1- 6.5 barrel from a .260. My latest 243 has a 1-8 twist and i have been shooting 80 grain and 120 grain copper . Barnes tTSX , and LRX .
My 223 will likely get a new barrel in 1-8 ( maybe faster depending on the bullets i decide to use) Currently it shoots well enough with Barnes and a ten twist , it could just help some at longer ranges and wind ! I do think the short light 50 grain copper needs a bit more help , maybe like the 5.56 the military chose ?
The trouble with larger copper in copper just wont hold the speed also even pushed hard and fast . i am no ballistic nerd , just a stalker figuring things out in the field .
My 223 will likely get a new barrel in 1-8 ( maybe faster depending on the bullets i decide to use) Currently it shoots well enough with Barnes and a ten twist , it could just help some at longer ranges and wind ! I do think the short light 50 grain copper needs a bit more help , maybe like the 5.56 the military chose ?
The trouble with larger copper in copper just wont hold the speed also even pushed hard and fast . i am no ballistic nerd , just a stalker figuring things out in the field .
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