Thames Valley Police to insist on paid GP report

[Alantoo]

Oh dear. I have to say as a long time BASC supporter that they do seem to be dodging this. I suspect that it is true that the TVP can do this. The problem here is SHOULD they be doing this?
snip...

Yes, likewise. Dispiriting ain't it?

snip...

Atlantoo, I agree that the other shooting organisations should be tackling this too. But the original poster asked BASC as he is a member and they effectively dodged the issue.

I did understand that...my questions were directly in response to @enfieldspares comment that he is glad he moved to SACS as it was a craven response from BASC and stated what they should be doing....but he didn't giving any indication that SACS are doing anything more proactive, let alone anything to justify his preference.

Atlan

 

[CarlW]

Yes, likewise. Dispiriting ain't it?



I did understand that...my questions were directly in response to @enfieldspares comment that he is glad he moved to SACS as it was a craven response from BASC and stated what they should be doing....but he didn't giving any indication that SACS are doing anything more proactive, let alone anything to justify his preference.

Atlan

'Atlan' makes you sound like an elvish prince. Definitely a warrior's name. You must name your sword, assuming you have one, of course...

 

[enfieldspares]

SACS don't claim to be 'the authoritative voice for shooting'. BASC does. Nor does SACS unlike BASC employ 110...yes that's right 110...people. That and the posted reply to their member is why.

 

[Alantoo]

'Atlan' makes you sound like an elvish prince. Definitely a warrior's name. You must name your sword, assuming you have one, of course...

We have big old Ash tree in the garden that my father Christened (Paganned?) Idrisil. Atlan would be appropriately leaning on this tree sharpening his sword (well maybe a scythe) musing on the world I think.

I was quoting @Pedro 's misquote as you probably noticed...Hey! actually there is another one to tilt at windmills...Don Misquote...only his mate was Sancho not Pedro

Alan

 

[Alantoo]

SACS don't claim to be 'the authoritative voice for shooting'. BASC does. Nor does SACS unlike BASC employ 110...yes that's right 110...people. That and the posted reply to their member is why.

But, but, but size isn't really the point...and both SACS and the CA claim not dissimilar advocacy roles to BASC on top of their insurance policies...see below...why do you excuse them from actually doing something about this and just condemn BASC? Don't you think they are all a bit weak when it comes to the crunch?

"The Countryside Alliance is the campaigning organisation that promotes the rural way of life in Parliament, in the media and on the ground."

"The Scottish Association for Country Sports - SACS is Scotland and Northern Ireland’s largest shooting and country sports organisation with members across the UK. We are a grassroots representative body, standing up for the rights of ordinary shooters, anglers and hunters UK-wide."

I do agree it was disappointing.

Alan

 

[Orion]

BASC have (had if we need to be precise) more than a little involvement in the medical evidence scheme. Do you remember how they proudly ‘welcomed’ the process that they were instrumental in negotiating despite it being flawed from the off? Then when the GPs decided they wouldn’t abide by the BMA’s ‘no expectation of a fee’, they exacerbated the situation by informing said GPs that they ‘must’ play ball - that went down well!

With no way then back to the negotiating table we were informed that they were seeking a political solution, and not looking to go legal on any recalcitrant FLDs/CC - and where did that get them, other than to the present situation of apparent total capitulation?

At least the CA managed to back the HO into a corner and get a commitment for a date (July) to commence a review into firearms licensing, including the failed medical evidence process.

Based on the actions taken on behalf of shooters this year I know where my money is going for the next - CA and NGO and not the bloated and silent ‘voice’.

 

[jimbo1984]

“ basc welcomes privately owned firearms being taken from certificate holders , culling of deer shall only be carried out by government licensed contractors with Dsc level 10 , basc believes we are all a lot safer for this . Please continue to support basc as we are fighting for you all ( and the lunches don’t pay for them selves ....) “
A little look into the future gents

 

[tozzybum]

The BASC Titanic hasnt just hit the iceberg its reversed so it can ram it again ,first Packhams licence farce now their actively telling you to roll over for the nice doctor and leave your wallet on the side as you pull your pants up

 

[User00025]

"Home Office Guidance also has no statutory footing and our legal advice is that if harm was done as a result of the police issuing a certificate the responsibility for failing to properly manage the risk, would from a legal perspective, fall to the police."

Well yes, and why should it not fall to the police? What sort of justification is that? The police are paid to do the checks and take the decisions. So now they are going to hide behind the GP and say "not our fault the doctor said it was okay"...if the **** hits the fan? Hardly surprising the GPs need to charge if their Insurance is going to have to foot the bill for any mayhem blamed on their report.



What have SACS or the CA or the NGO done to counter this? Is it just BASC that is not raising it with the Home Office and Home Secretary? I am not a BASC apologist but I never understand why one insurance provider should be expected to do more than any other.

Alan

Simples !! They ARE the "Voice of Shooting" Ha f .in Ha.

 

[User00025]

But, but, but size isn't really the point...and both SACS and the CA claim not dissimilar advocacy roles to BASC on top of their insurance policies...see below...why do you excuse them from actually doing something about this and just condemn BASC? Don't you think they are all a bit weak when it comes to the crunch?

"The Countryside Alliance is the campaigning organisation that promotes the rural way of life in Parliament, in the media and on the ground."

"The Scottish Association for Country Sports - SACS is Scotland and Northern Ireland’s largest shooting and country sports organisation with members across the UK. We are a grassroots representative body, standing up for the rights of ordinary shooters, anglers and hunters UK-wide."

I do agree it was disappointing.

Alan

Maybe nobody has sent TVP's statement to the others yet. BASC never commented until an SD member sent it to them.

 

[User00025]

Anyway none of this medic crap affects me, cos I have been totally mental all my life. I know this because a Rupert told me once when we got in some bother. He even told the Boss when we got back, so it must be true.

 

[finnbear270]

This should be it as far as BASC goes. As others say it's little more as far as I can see but an insurance provider. Paying a Guinea for what? The Half Crown seat? I'm glad I went to SACS three years or so ago. A craven reply. It ought to have been that they would take active and immediate action to raise this with the Home Office and the Home Secretary to ask why TVP can invent their own processes. For if TVP can do this unchallenged you can be sure other forces sering the acceptance of it by 'the Voice of Shooting' will follow suit. Elsewise what's the point, at all, in the Home Office trying to create a uniform rocedure for all police forces in England and Wales?

Chief Constables, at least most of them treat their force as if it were a fiefdom, not their county or area of responsibility.

 

[Hornet 6]

Such an easy decision, it is not supported by law, so either they process my application as normal without the doctors report, or they can stuff my fac where the sun don't shine.
I will not be dictated to by a police force who are not fit for purpose.
Another nail in the coffin of democracy for this terminally ill country.

Neil.

 

[finnbear270]

Such an easy decision, it is not supported by law, so either they process my application as normal without the doctors report, or they can stuff my fac where the sun don't shine.
I will not be dictated to by a police force who are not fit for purpose.
Another nail in the coffin of democracy for this terminally ill country.

Neil.

& I really suspect that that is the reaction they would all like.

 

[Finbarn]

Put yourself in the place of the Chief Officer of Police who has to comply with the following when granting licences to complete strangers to possess firearms....would I like to take on board this responsibility, no thanks, when something goes wrong you’ll carry the blame & have the responsibility placed at your door...

“The Firearms Act 1968 (as amended) and Home Office Guidance states that before granting or renewing a firearm/shot gun certificate the Chief Officer of Police needs to be satisfied that applicants can be permitted to have the firearm(s)/shot guns/ammunition without danger to the public safety or to the peace. Details that are required in order to make an informed decision on an applicant’s suitability, includes information relating to their medical history.”

The form everyone’s getting so excited about looks like this....apart from names, addresses, dates etc.



Is there really anyone here who thinks it’s an unreasonable imposition on our sport for the police & medical profession to consider these when handing out certificates to buy firearms. I don’t. This seems quite sensible & the bare minimum I’d want to know if I were the chief officer of police signing off a stack of FACs.

I don’t know about anybody else but I’d not want anyone with the above issues to be holding firearms & we’d all rightly gutted if someone with one of these conditions was to use their legally held firearm in a way that brought our sport into disrepute & attracted emotionally charged calls to further restrict firearm ownership.

Surely it’s better to have sensible, proportionate & proactive measures in place to filter out those unsuitable to hold guns than fight against any change on the basis on a paranoia fuelled conspiracy theory that the establishments coming for our guns & any change is bad.

We should embrace anything that prevents another Dunblame or Hungerford from drawing more negative attention to firearm ownership, if anything’s going to accelerate an end to our sport it’s a pile of the general public shot up by a legitimate firearms owner.

Personally, working in construction, an industry over run with form filling & box ticking, this form is a stroll in the park for a doctor. I paid £25 on my renewal for my Dr to do a reference - £5 a year - bargain!

I thought the BASC statement was fair do’s under the circumstances so fair play to them. It’s too easy just to keep bashing these guys, maybe the odd bit of support could help......?

 

[finnbear270]

This was or used to be the remit of an F.E.O., to assess an applicants suitability, along with security issues, .... Pretty soon we could be asked to visit a shrink for a report also, maybe?

 

[jimbo1984]

Put yourself in the place of the Chief Officer of Police who has to comply with the following when granting licences to complete strangers to possess firearms....would I like to take on board this responsibility, no thanks, when something goes wrong you’ll carry the blame & have the responsibility placed at your door...

“The Firearms Act 1968 (as amended) and Home Office Guidance states that before granting or renewing a firearm/shot gun certificate the Chief Officer of Police needs to be satisfied that applicants can be permitted to have the firearm(s)/shot guns/ammunition without danger to the public safety or to the peace. Details that are required in order to make an informed decision on an applicant’s suitability, includes information relating to their medical history.”

The form everyone’s getting so excited about looks like this....apart from names, addresses, dates etc.

View attachment 130689

Is there really anyone here who thinks it’s an unreasonable imposition on our sport for the police & medical profession to consider these when handing out certificates to buy firearms. I don’t. This seems quite sensible & the bare minimum I’d want to know if I were the chief officer of police signing off a stack of FACs.

I don’t know about anybody else but I’d not want anyone with the above issues to be holding firearms & we’d all rightly gutted if someone with one of these conditions was to use their legally held firearm in a way that brought our sport into disrepute & attracted emotionally charged calls to further restrict firearm ownership.

Surely it’s better to have sensible, proportionate & proactive measures in place to filter out those unsuitable to hold guns than fight against any change on the basis on a paranoia fuelled conspiracy theory that the establishments coming for our guns & any change is bad.

We should embrace anything that prevents another Dunblame or Hungerford from drawing more negative attention to firearm ownership, if anything’s going to accelerate an end to our sport it’s a pile of the general public shot up by a legitimate firearms owner.

Personally, working in construction, an industry over run with form filling & box ticking, this form is a stroll in the park for a doctor. I paid £25 on my renewal for my Dr to do a reference - £5 a year - bargain!

I thought the BASC statement was fair do’s under the circumstances so fair play to them. It’s too easy just to keep bashing these guys, maybe the odd bit of support could help......?

We really don’t need antis with people like you in our midst

 

[Finbarn]

We really don’t need antis with people like you in our midst

Why’s that jimbo?

What was it I said that puts me with the antis?

 

[Finbarn]

So if you were responsible for putting your name at the bottom of a FAC what would your process for ensuring that person was a suitable candidate look like....?

 

[jimbo1984]

Why’s that jimbo?

What was it I said that puts me with the antis?

Hmm let’s see the references to hungerford and dunblane ? I’m not advocating anyone with serious mental health problems having access to firearms but at the end of the day these conditions have always been mandatory to report to the police while applying for a cert and checked with the doc , the way you speak and welcome this stuff makes me Think you must be either and anti or work for basc ? ( which let’s be fair ain’t much different )