The .410 – world’s smallest shotgun calibre

[tim@tcs]

BASC still labour under the mistaken belief, like so many other national associations, that they represent us and know better!

A bit like governments formed by political parties that poll the lowest ever yet still feel
Qualified to lecture us!

I’m trying really hard to be polite about what were initially formed by sportsmen with the best intentions becoming tools of a nanny state!

 

[DesG]

On a technicality the .410 refers to the bore diameter but I'm not sure about the 9mm flobert. It's bore is less than 9mm if I remember correctly.
That aside yes, it's not a gauge like the other common breech loaders.
Muzzleloaders come in all sorts of gauges and fraction measurements as Harriman calls them.
I have had .58" smoothbores and currently own a .45".

I used to love the 9mm garden gun but the carts have gone very expensive. The rim is 10mm, the powder bulge is 9mm and the shot tube and bore is about 8mm.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Posted this on P/W and got the reply below:


Maybe you should contact Bill yourself and stop the repeated silly sniping and fauxrage? It's been an interesting thread reading about forum members' various experiences of shooting with a .410.

Oh well. Never mind. Now's my turn.


And clearly from what he had written that experience is a great deal wider than Bill Harriman's. And no I will not now be suggesting to my MP that he visit your presentation at the Party Conference....that as a direct result of the first sentence of your response I've just quoted.

Perhaps stop the repeated silly sniping and fauxrage and contact Bill directly.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

BASC still labour under the mistaken belief, like so many other national associations, that they represent us and know better!

Really? I think you know better than that.

 

[enfieldspares]

Perhaps stop the repeated silly sniping and fauxrage and contact Bill directly.

I am sure that Bill has better things to do than respond to comments from myself. And I would not seek to waste his time in expecting him to either read or reply to such a communication.

The point about Eley Fourlong and English #5 is clearly misunderstood. But those of us of a certain age and therefore the same "vintage" as BH will remember that it was the only "flavour" on the menu in most gunshops and responsible for the .410" gaining a poor reputation.

So as I have said with the new excellent and shooting industry award winning Eley Trap .410" in English #7 1/2 those of a certain age need to look not at how the .410" performed with the then available cartridges - roll turnover closed Eley Fourlong English #5 - in their youth but how it performs now with today's loadings.

Bill would have better begun the passage about it's suitability "for shooting moving, aerial targets" with the words "Back in my early years....". With which few including myself would not have disagreed.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I am sure that Bill has better things to do than respond to comments from myself. And I would not seek to waste his time in expecting him to either read or reply to such a communication.

The point about Eley Fourlong and English #5 is clearly misunderstood. But those of us of a certain age and therefore the same "vintage" as BH will remember that it was the only "flavour" on the menu in most gunshops and responsible for the .410" gaining a poor reputation.

So as I have said with the new excellent and shooting industry award winning Eley Trap .410" in English #7 1/2 those of a certain age need to look not at how the .410" performed with the then available cartridges - roll turnover closed Eley Fourlong English #5 - in their youth but how it performs now with today's loadings.

Bill would have better begun the passage about it's suitability "for shooting moving, aerial targets" with the words "Back in my early years....". With which few including myself would not have disagreed.

Please contact Bill directly with all your feedback given that you know him for many years.

 

[tim@tcs]

Really? I think you know better than that.

There you go assuming what you think I know



It’s a no win argument I’ll only out dumb you with silly words

 

[tim@tcs]

Perhaps stop the repeated silly sniping and fauxrage and contact Bill directly.

The problem with open forums is just that, echo chambers or disagreements.

Just because we don’t agree on something doesn’t make us enemies or allies just human!
If disagreements are not welcome then perhaps stop putting stuff online for comments as you can guarantee not everyone will agree.
It’s never binary

 

[Smellydog]

Connor. If I represented an organisation that constantly got ridiculed every time it spouted something I'd be questioning the organisation and not the people pointing out it's flaws!

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

There you go assuming what you think I know



It’s a no win argument I’ll only out dumb you with silly words

To state "BASC still labour under the mistaken belief, like so many other national associations, that they represent us and know better!" is ridiculous and well you know it. BASC is run by members elected by its membership and the Association is accountable to its members. And as a very small part of that engagement, here I am on this forum engaging with members and non-members.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Connor. If I represented an organisation that constantly got ridiculed every time it spouted something I'd be questioning the organisation and not the people pointing out it's flaws!

There has been mostly constructive criticism on this thread about Bill's article. That's all fine and par for the course on a forum and an interesting thread it has been. There have been a few ill advised comments that I have called out and I make no apology for that. As pointed out above this is a forum and I am entitled to my opinion of comments made on stuff I post as anyone else. Been doing it for 12 years. Interestingly the same article was shared on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram this morning and no silly sniping etc. thus far.

 

[tim@tcs]

To state "BASC still labour under the mistaken belief, like so many other national associations, that they represent us and know better!" is ridiculous and well you know it. BASC is run by members elected by its membership and the Association is accountable to its members. And as a very small part of that engagement, here I am on this forum engaging with members and non-members.

As I said you are entitled to your beliefs!

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

As I said you are entitled to your beliefs!

And so are you.

 

[tim@tcs]

Interestingly the same article was shared on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram this morning and no silly sniping etc. thus

Not everyone bothers with the echo chamber of normal social media especially when it’s easy to stop negative posts appearing!
Frankly a lot of forums are little more than echo chambers!
This one isn’t so bad. I only haunt a couple of others that are quite specialised subjects.

 

[Smellydog]

Interestingly the same article was shared on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram this morning and no silly sniping etc. thus far.

Probably because I'm not on them...

 

[ContinShots]

Harriman says the .410 is the only shotgun to use a measurement of a fraction decimal measurement.
Wrong, there is also a .22.

Then he says it's not humane enough for game shooting.
Wrong again. That's his opinion and yet another vain attempt at setting a narrative to right the 410 off in preparation for it's demise via the lead ban that basic is backing.

Sorry Connor. I just see Trojan horses.

Have you read his firearms law book? It's much the same. A lot of subjective opinion, some of it pretty dated and ignorant, like his take on PCP airguns. We really need younger, fresher and less stuffy voices in the firearms community.

 

[Smellydog]

Have you read his firearms law book? It's much the same. A lot of subjective opinion, some of it pretty dated and ignorant, like his take on PCP airguns. We really need younger, fresher and less stuffy voices in the firearms community.

No I haven't read his book but can imagine the dialogue.
Being presumptuous I can just imagine his expert opinion swaying political decision making that also sends a cringe worthy shudder up my spine!

 

[tim@tcs]

I’d still rate Harriman above Barrington Barnes!
Not a high bar I’ll admit!