The 'Lead Free' lie

[Sharpie]

But I use lead not for nostalgia but because it is better.

Or just living in the past.

Correct on most of that. As it happens I still have about half an oil drum full of monotype left that I was gifted when the press closed.(the logistics of getting that back to my place was interesting) I occasionally cast a handful into the melting pot, which is usually filled with range scrap, almost all soft 22LR bullets. I've got enough to see me out.

Not sure that the workers running hot lead were in the best of health, but they were heavily unionised, boozy, and extremely well paid. Some quite amusing and even a bit intellectual.

Eddie Shah broke the unions running Fleet Street. From Manchester. Colour, tabloid format, the print didn't come off on your fingers. The "Today" content was a mixed choice. The Times moved out to Wapping. Prior to that the Grunwick dispute, and of course previously the Miners' strike. Let's not talk about the Falklands.

Gawd knows what the old stuff was made of., actually old engine oil and some sooty black pigment.

Maggie was in charge, and minded the same way at the time, ISTR. She wasn't wrong about that. Nor afraid to make hard decisions. I'm not saying that she was perfect, but made some good calls. Particularly over the Falklands. Everybody loves a "good war". Decision making, not so much group think.

Posh people used to have to have their servants iron the broadsheet papers to minimise that problem (Inky Fingers)..

I'd like to think that life has got better, for most who live in very privileged peaceful circumstances, but not for the rest., and that we should aspire to leave the World, if not worse, than maybe a little bit better place than that which we inherited. What more can we little people do, or at least aspire to do ?

 

[griff]

Correct on all three. But I use lead not for nostalgia but because it is better.

And linotype is no longer much used yet even though they handled type every day with naked fingers there appears to have never been any reported incidents of typesetters or printers succumbing to lead illnesses. Linotype now has mostly gone as with WYSIWYG ink jet printing it's old technology and inefficient. So it went as what replaced it was better, cheaper, more efficient. A genuine advantage over the "old tech".

Lead shot in shotgun cartridges however whilst old technology is efficient for many reasons...it softer than the barrels it travels along yet at the same time hard enough to kill the quarry it is aimed at. It is not a scarce metal so we are not firing into the air bsimuth which is a scarce metal and lead is therefore cheap and more importantly cheaper to produce than steel shot. Which is why "old tech" as it is there is still no better more useful alternative.

Gold would in its characteristics substitute for lead shot very well except for cost.

Lead is only better at long range and price, nothing else..Doesn't kill any quicker, doesn't give you a better carcass, it is definitely not any more accurate.Yes its a pita to get at the moment, but will get better.
Steel shot is cheaper than lead shot by about £2kg, its only more expensive in cartridges because of the demand.

 

[Sharpie]

Gold would in its characteristics substitute for lead shot very well except for cost.

As might depleted Uranium.

It's not as if if we aren't sitting on masses of the stuff, which nobody really knows what to do with. Tried to dispose of some of that in, ISTR Gulf War 1. Not sure how that panned out. Gulf war syndrome (denied( but obvious if you are going to chuck around very heavy metals). Not been tried since, AFAIK.

But, hey ho, it's probably still in the arsenal. Fly in a few modernised Warthogs to Ukraine loaded with such stuff, and i t might wipe the smirk off Vladimir Putin and Sergei Lavrov' faces. As if they didn't already need telling, about how out of order they are behaving. perhaps they would benefit from a good spanking. But we live in hope.

But, now, I might be accused of being controversial. So crucify me.

Now, back on to the OP, which was obviously jazzed up to attract reactions by @caberslash the tart (look him up and form your own opinion)

Got some of you jumping around ?

 

[Liveonce]

Lead is only better at long range and price, nothing else..Doesn't kill any quicker, doesn't give you a better carcass, it is definitely not any more accurate.Yes its a pita to get at the moment, but will get better.
Steel shot is cheaper than lead shot by about £2kg, its only more expensive in cartridges because of the demand.

not sure where you think steel shot is £2 per kg cheaper than lead shot, raw steel shot is 60p per kg less than lead and copper plated steel is 48p per kg more expensive than lead shot.

Steel Shot

Steel Shot Available in various sizes and finishes, including zinc and copper.

www.claygame.co.uk

obviously buying by the many tonne from the manufactures will give different margins, but steel has gone up by around 300% since the war in the Ukraine and transport costs from China for the steel shot will be much greater than from the EU for lead shot.

 

[griff]

Last time I looked Steel was £2.80 per kg and lead was £4.40kg, must be going up dramatically saw lead shot @£5.40kg.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Not the end.

It’s as much a potential environmental issue (carrion, waterfowl) as it is a food safety one. Why do you always ignore that?

I don’t
But it’s not the driver

If it was all lead shot would have been banned when the waterfowl shooting ban
As it is the impact on land from rifle bullets in carrion is not as significant as tons of lead shot in water

 

[Sharpie]

not sure where you think steel shot is £2 per kg cheaper than lead shot, raw steel shot is 60p per kg less than lead and copper plated steel is 48p per kg more expensive than lead shot.

Steel Shot

Steel Shot Available in various sizes and finishes, including zinc and copper.

www.claygame.co.uk

obviously buying by the many tonne from the manufactures will give different margins, but steel has gone up by around 300% since the war in the Ukraine and transport costs from China for the steel shot will be much greater than from the EU for lead shot.

Not sure where you are getting your figures from. Don't try to bring the war in the Ukraine or supposed 300% price rises into this, it has nothing to do with the price of fish. Which nowadays is not wrapped in dirty newspaper. Or Chinese relationships.

Today's prices, from a respectable source (you know who I am talking about, apparently on first name terms with him), at retail: in small quantities, per kilo.

Steel shot, £3.60/kilo

Lead £4.20

Bismuth £49.38

Tungsten matrix, ITX, £54.90

Solid Tungsten £76 (but you really need to know what you are doing to use this, it hits hard)

Is that clear enough ?

 

[griff]

Not sure where you are getting your figures from. Don't try to bring the war in the Ukraine or supposed 300% price rises into this, it has nothing to do with the price of fish. Which nowadays is not wrapped in dirty newspaper. Or Chinese relationships.

Today's prices, from a respectable source (you know who I am talking about, apparently on first name terms with him), at retail: in small quantities, per kilo.

Steel shot, £3.60/kilo

Lead £4.20

Bismuth £49.38

Tungsten matrix, ITX, £54.90

Solid Tungsten £76 (but you really need to know what you are doing to use this, it hits hard)

Is that clear enough ?

So Steel is cheaper than lead, what a surprise..

 

[Sharpie]

If it was all lead shot would have been banned when the waterfowl shooting ban
As it is the impact on land from rifle bullets in carrion is not as significant as tons of lead shot in water

Correct.

There is big business behind a lot of the shot gunning industry, people, jobs and so on.. Not to be easily dismissed., it genuinely is a problem with no easy answers

Thank you for pioneering alternatives for we rifle shooting types, it is appreciated, and I suspect hard work for you.

 

[enfieldspares]

Today's prices, from a respectable source (you know who I am talking about, apparently on first name terms with him), at retail: in small quantities, per kilo.

Steel shot, £3.60/kilo

Lead £4.20

Bismuth £49.38

Yes, but....

I know that I can kill and kill well with the equivalent of the 12 Bore 2 Inch load of 25 grams of lead #7. I can get forty cartridges from my one kilo of lead.

I understand to kill well with steel in "standard steel" Eley, Hull and Lylvale all load 32 grams of steel #5. If I duplicate that it gives me thirty-one cartridges.

Thus lead £4.20 per kilo divided by 40 is 10.5 pence per cartridge. Whereas steel £3.60 per kilo divided by 31 is 11.6 pence per cartridge.

So my lead 7/8 ounce (25 grams) cartridges are cheaper. It is not what the shot costs per kilo. It is what the cartridge has to carry as its payload to kill clean.

Steel #5 is 275 pellets for 32 grams. Lead #7 pellets for 25 gram is 300 pellets. It carries more pellets of shot by count so will pattern better.

And I have no need of plastic wads with my lead loaded cartridges. I also likely use less powder too. Finally yes there are bio-degradable plastic wads for steel shot. But at what price for those wads?

So lead is £ X per kilo and steel is £ Y per kilo indeed may be the truth. But it is far from the whole truth.

To say nothing in these times of the criticism of the energy used to smelt steel shot nor the distance that it is transported from the China to Europe.

 

[ruger77]

So i was at the reloading shop ,needed some powder to put under my newly acquired peregrine projectiles the proprietor made a comment on how quickly the reloading lot had adapted to the lead free ammunition situation

 

[Liveonce]

So Steel is cheaper than lead, what a surprise..

yes, but not by the £2 per kg as you quoted in your post #82, which was the point I was making.

“Steel shot is cheaper than lead shot by about £2kg, its only more expensive in cartridges because of the demand.”

But by 60p per Kg. For plain steel shot, personal i and a bet a lot prefer the copper plated steel shot which is 48p per kg more expensive than lead. My post #84.

Then it will depend on when they last imported the steel shot, pre Ukraine war or not.

Then wait until you see the price of biodegradable plastic wads, currently looking at three to four times the price of standard fibre wads, and please don’t say it a volume thing because that is on one million wads,
of the type which take a couple of years to degrade, the faster type may not make it to the reloading market due to either; exclusively being a USP for the cartridge/wad manufacture, price, or typically one year shelf life prior to use.

 

[25 Sharps]

I don’t
But it’s not the driver

If it was all lead shot would have been banned when the waterfowl shooting ban
As it is the impact on land from rifle bullets in carrion is not as significant as tons of lead shot in water

I genuinely hope you're right but I nagging feeling you're wrong, fingers crossed!

 

[25 Sharps]

So i was at the reloading shop ,needed some powder to put under my newly acquired peregrine projectiles the proprietor made a comment on how quickly the reloading lot had adapted to the lead free ammunition situation

Reloaders are pretty adaptable by nature, its probably part of the reason they reload in the first place.

 

[griff]

yes, but not by the £2 per kg as you quoted in your post #82, which was the point I was making.

“Steel shot is cheaper than lead shot by about £2kg, its only more expensive in cartridges because of the demand.”

But by 60p per Kg. For plain steel shot, personal i and a bet a lot prefer the copper plated steel shot which is 48p per kg more expensive than lead. My post #84.

Then it will depend on when they last imported the steel shot, pre Ukraine war or not.

Then wait until you see the price of biodegradable plastic wads, currently looking at three to four times the price of standard fibre wads, and please don’t say it a volume thing because that is on one million wads,
of the type which take a couple of years to degrade, the faster type may not make it to the reloading market due to either; exclusively being a USP for the cartridge/wad manufacture, price, or typically one year shelf life prior to use.

Ordinary Steel £24.0 10kg
Ordinary Lead £42.0 10kg

Plated Steel £46.8 10kg
Plated Lead £54.0 10kg

Sourced from two company's specializing in Shotshell reloading.

Yep, your right at the Ukraine war, the majority are now out of stock.

 

[Liveonce]

Ordinary Steel £24.0 10kg
Ordinary Lead £42.0 10kg

Plated Steel £46.8 10kg
Plated Lead £54.0 10kg

Sourced from two company's specializing in Shotshell reloading.

Yep, your right at the Ukraine war, the majority are now out of stock.

I buy the copper plated steel to hopefully provide better rust proofing, but as lead does not rust just use plain ordinary lead.

who is or was selling ordinary steel at £24.00 for 10kg may be useful going forward.

 

[Heym SR20]

I think that sadly we will find that the Ukrainian crisis is far more effect than just hampering the supply of steel. With NATO now warning that this crisis will last many years, and reports in some of the press that Putin is going to declare WW3 at his May day celebrations, price of steel shot will be the least of our worries.

 

[Dunwaters]

I think that sadly we will find that the Ukrainian crisis is far more effect than just hampering the supply of steel. With NATO now warning that this crisis will last many years, and reports in some of the press that Putin is going to declare WW3 at his May day celebrations, price of steel shot will be the least of our worries.

Too right, the EU is already softening us up for fuel rationing with diesel first on the list and gas to follow…