The origins of the DSC1
- Thread starter perdix
- Start date
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
The origins go back even further really to post WWII.
The occupying forces became involved with managing deer which the Germans had been doing previously. They soon realised that it was a requirement which wasn't being done particularly well back in the UK with any organisation or regulation.
The returning forces began managing the deer on MOD land. The BDS was founded along with early certification as already posted above.
I clearly wasn't there, but this was what I was told by one of the prominent names mentioned above.
MS
The occupying forces became involved with managing deer which the Germans had been doing previously. They soon realised that it was a requirement which wasn't being done particularly well back in the UK with any organisation or regulation.
The returning forces began managing the deer on MOD land. The BDS was founded along with early certification as already posted above.
I clearly wasn't there, but this was what I was told by one of the prominent names mentioned above.
MS
good afternoon ,just checked my paper work and my nscc number is 0499<1994> i also missed out on the grandfather rites so went to sparsholt in 2010 and got my dsc1 update to include the large game meat hygiene certificate,keep wondering whether to do the dsc2 but may have left that a bit late! andrew hoon<brigadier rtd> was involved with the bds/dds, training side for many years and only stepped down 2 years ago because of health issues. he was very influential with the dealings with the d.i. and helped to start the deer management here in the uk<from his learnings from being stationed in germany /usa and salisbury plain <here he taught a lot of young officers deer management>
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Interesting thread. Looking forward to hearing more from the real Ol' Timers please.
K
K
Loki
Well-Known Member
Hi
I missed out on the Grandfather Rights (GR) with my BASC Woodland Stalking Certificate (taken at Powderham Castle, Devon?) at the inception of the DSC1 - along with several chums - so we went on to do the DSC1 with Alex Jagger at Harewood House. Good man was he, RIP.
Andrew Hoon lives not far from me (leastways he did in Wantage), seemed ok (though not helpful) from the few words when we discussed my or friends, not hearing/reading of the GR and DSC1.
L
I missed out on the Grandfather Rights (GR) with my BASC Woodland Stalking Certificate (taken at Powderham Castle, Devon?) at the inception of the DSC1 - along with several chums - so we went on to do the DSC1 with Alex Jagger at Harewood House. Good man was he, RIP.
Andrew Hoon lives not far from me (leastways he did in Wantage), seemed ok (though not helpful) from the few words when we discussed my or friends, not hearing/reading of the GR and DSC1.
L
Did my WSCC in april 1985 with Dieter Dent, Kenneth Whithead, Fred Courtier, Stan Armstrong and Richard Prior over five days at Fordingbribge as part of leaving the RN even though I'd shot deer since I was eleven, John Smith (from Stafordshire) and I borrowed the liver, onion and apple Deitier had shown us in the larder (his take on breakfast) took it back to our digs and asked them to cook it for our supper, sorry Deitier but it was good
That's well impressive! Kind of like bagging the "Big 5" of the deerstalking world and all within a week.
K
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Did the same course after hitching the last bit to Stockbridge in '85 too, I remember John Cubby (services branch) and a young Mike Yardley also candidates, the latter lodged in the same B&b as me at the time, Carberry Tower iirc. Must've been later in the year though, because the village was covered in stubble ash mid-week. Dieter Dent, Fred Courtier, Hon P Baillie, Richard Prior all lectured. Managed to scrounge a lift from one of the other candidates back to the train station at Winchester en route back home. No car for me in my young day!
Remember attending one of the St.Hubert training days at Santon Downham a few years later, still a relatively young pup but having already killed and dressed a thousand or so, and in thrall to some of the older hands and their tales pre-lecture. I recall vividly the "draw in the bits in sequence when asked" on a simple outline deer printed on a sheet of A4; it turned out that a fair number of the maestros were a little 'rusty' as to where everything was meant to be, orientation of the diaphragm, etc! Then I had the temerity to ask why, in the last slide/photo sequence of performing the gralloch, after all the care hitherto shown, the A grade in the slide had grabbed the animal by the scruff of the neck and let the remaining cavity blood spill back down all over the haunches, " - the more valuable part of the beast?"; I think they changed it a bit thereafter.
Bloody upstart Jock, I'm sure!
Remember attending one of the St.Hubert training days at Santon Downham a few years later, still a relatively young pup but having already killed and dressed a thousand or so, and in thrall to some of the older hands and their tales pre-lecture. I recall vividly the "draw in the bits in sequence when asked" on a simple outline deer printed on a sheet of A4; it turned out that a fair number of the maestros were a little 'rusty' as to where everything was meant to be, orientation of the diaphragm, etc! Then I had the temerity to ask why, in the last slide/photo sequence of performing the gralloch, after all the care hitherto shown, the A grade in the slide had grabbed the animal by the scruff of the neck and let the remaining cavity blood spill back down all over the haunches, " - the more valuable part of the beast?"; I think they changed it a bit thereafter.
Bloody upstart Jock, I'm sure!
In the mid 1980s I did the professional stalkers course( You had to be employed as a stalker or similar to get a place on the course) on the Isle of Rum or Rhum as it was in those days it was a weeks course run in conjunction by the the
British Field Sports and the Red Deer Commission the Nature Conservancy Council also had some input.
This course was latter adapted and amended and is now part of the curriculum for those doing the keepering course
at the Highland College Thurso.
At the start of of DSC I was informed by DMQ that this certificate qualified me for DSC 1 and if I could supply cull records Gamedealer receipts and references also DSC 2.
However by the time I got everything together they had realised that the Rum course only covered Red Deer and I would
need to be assessed for DSC I so I attended a two day course more like a day and a half actually.
This was prior to meat handling being part of the course, when it became part of DSC I only had to read the relevant
best practice and legislation and sign a declaration stating I had read and understood
On doing so received a brand new DSC certificate with meat handling added.
British Field Sports and the Red Deer Commission the Nature Conservancy Council also had some input.
This course was latter adapted and amended and is now part of the curriculum for those doing the keepering course
at the Highland College Thurso.
At the start of of DSC I was informed by DMQ that this certificate qualified me for DSC 1 and if I could supply cull records Gamedealer receipts and references also DSC 2.
However by the time I got everything together they had realised that the Rum course only covered Red Deer and I would
need to be assessed for DSC I so I attended a two day course more like a day and a half actually.
This was prior to meat handling being part of the course, when it became part of DSC I only had to read the relevant
best practice and legislation and sign a declaration stating I had read and understood
On doing so received a brand new DSC certificate with meat handling added.
Turkish
Well-Known Member
I completed my WSCC in the early 90's, and - at the time very keen and green - then went and did the then 'new' National Stalkers Competence Certificate in 1996 with the FC and BASC at Bucks Horn Oak, Farnham. Just south of where the FC Offices at Alice Holt are today.
That course was delivered by a fresh faced Ex Army Officer straight out of the Royal Engineers. He had just taken on the role of Deer Officer with the BASC. Latter to go on to much greater things.............
On passing - my NSCC number is 653 - he asked me if i would be interested in a new qualification that they had to offer, called the Deer M. . anagement Qualification level 2. " It's all practical, and - as you have your own stalking - you'll get it done in no time......", So I signed up.
Back in those days, there weren't may Accredited Witnesses, and even fewer Assessors. And you only had 2 years to do it in if I remember ! To cut a long story short, I managed to get a couple of witnessed stalks, but could not get an assessor assigned, so gave up in 98.
I later completed my level 2 - new portfolio and three new stalks - in 2005, when things were a bit better organised. In the mean time I had to do my Large meat hygiene certificate separately, and did the small game at the same time.
The original NSCC course was very hands on. We gralloched a real deer - supplied by the ranges - and had to identify deer species, not just from pictures and videos, but from real fur pelts !!
Those were the days..............
That course was delivered by a fresh faced Ex Army Officer straight out of the Royal Engineers. He had just taken on the role of Deer Officer with the BASC. Latter to go on to much greater things.............
On passing - my NSCC number is 653 - he asked me if i would be interested in a new qualification that they had to offer, called the Deer M. . anagement Qualification level 2. " It's all practical, and - as you have your own stalking - you'll get it done in no time......", So I signed up.
Back in those days, there weren't may Accredited Witnesses, and even fewer Assessors. And you only had 2 years to do it in if I remember ! To cut a long story short, I managed to get a couple of witnessed stalks, but could not get an assessor assigned, so gave up in 98.
I later completed my level 2 - new portfolio and three new stalks - in 2005, when things were a bit better organised. In the mean time I had to do my Large meat hygiene certificate separately, and did the small game at the same time.
The original NSCC course was very hands on. We gralloched a real deer - supplied by the ranges - and had to identify deer species, not just from pictures and videos, but from real fur pelts !!
Those were the days..............
EMcC
Well-Known Member
It is rather strange nobody has mention John Childs, he was the one that started the military side of Deer management long before Alex Jagger came on the scene.
John was a WO11 in Germany and had experience of the German way of hunting and when he came back here took over on demob as Manager B workshops at Larkhill.
Him and and a few other Military types got together and a DCI was put out in 1980 among the military asking for experienced Deer stalkers to register an interest in starting up the WSCC.
Between '77 and '80 I was already supplying venison the Officers mess and occasionally the Sgt's & WO's mess in Bulford so was notified whilst serving in Belize in 1980.
On my return to Bulford I naturally registered but was told by John that I would not be put forward as a member very soon as I already had stalking and his aim was to get, people on board that had some clout to help get it off the ground.
That was probably sensible but it did sound as if it was being set up as an Officers club.
He did a good job and he eventually put me on one of his compulsory courses around '85 which gave me access to MOD property in the Larkhill area, this was later extended as more and more MOD property was found to need Deer control.
John was a WO11 in Germany and had experience of the German way of hunting and when he came back here took over on demob as Manager B workshops at Larkhill.
Him and and a few other Military types got together and a DCI was put out in 1980 among the military asking for experienced Deer stalkers to register an interest in starting up the WSCC.
Between '77 and '80 I was already supplying venison the Officers mess and occasionally the Sgt's & WO's mess in Bulford so was notified whilst serving in Belize in 1980.
On my return to Bulford I naturally registered but was told by John that I would not be put forward as a member very soon as I already had stalking and his aim was to get, people on board that had some clout to help get it off the ground.
That was probably sensible but it did sound as if it was being set up as an Officers club.
He did a good job and he eventually put me on one of his compulsory courses around '85 which gave me access to MOD property in the Larkhill area, this was later extended as more and more MOD property was found to need Deer control.
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Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
H"m I remember that name too from my NSCC days.
Basically the BDS plageurised the St Hubert Club training system. I was there when they came down to observe a training day well before the Woodland stalking cert. They virtually copied what the club had been doing since its conception under the auspices of The Baron and other European gentlemen who with a few military types and many civilians formed the club.
A little known bit of info is that the SHC was instrumental in instructing FC rangers on using rifles in lieu of shotguns to kill deer. A very experienced deer man who was a member also got the Scottish FC to do the same, he and Richard prior were good pals and very instrumental in teaching the use of rifles to the rangers.
I must admit I took the woodland stalkers cert as a joke, because it was all done with no actual practical work apart from the range in one afternoon. The SHC took on average 5 years to B stalker standard including stalking and shooting deer. A few years later you might be invited to try for A stalker grading.
A little known bit of info is that the SHC was instrumental in instructing FC rangers on using rifles in lieu of shotguns to kill deer. A very experienced deer man who was a member also got the Scottish FC to do the same, he and Richard prior were good pals and very instrumental in teaching the use of rifles to the rangers.
I must admit I took the woodland stalkers cert as a joke, because it was all done with no actual practical work apart from the range in one afternoon. The SHC took on average 5 years to B stalker standard including stalking and shooting deer. A few years later you might be invited to try for A stalker grading.
Very sad to lose Alex, what a character. I remember being at a game fair one year when he was on the bbq and sauce. He regaled us with tales of his very early sex exploits and both Dave Goffin and I were nearly having apoplexy. We were shedding tears and my ribs ached for days, we were almost hysterical at the descriptions and actions of Alex as he expounded his youthful antics.
Not fond of cheese and jam sarnies for breakfast though! His face was a picture of culinary disgust LoLI expect Alex was good on the BBQ as an Ex boy soldier and a member of the Army Cooks Corp he would have been very experienced.
It's a wonder he didn't want Beans with everything
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