Time to get Proactive???

[bogtrotter]

Many on here are probably to young to realise it but.the anti gun anti fieldsports movement has been gaining momentum for a long time now at least sixty years that I am aware of and possibly longer.

That's a hell of a ground to make up.

This is nothing new we have buried our heads in the sand for too long whatever we do now is at best a delaying tactic.
Hope I'm wrong but that's the way I see it.

 

[Jagare]

Many on here are probably to young to realise it but.the anti gun anti fieldsports movement has been gaining momentum for a long time now at least sixty years that I am aware of and possibly longer.

That's a hell of a ground to make up.

This is nothing new we have buried our heads in the sand for too long whatever we do now is at best a delaying tactic.
Hope I'm wrong but that's the way I see it.

So true. The UK shooting scene is quite new compared to mainland Europe. It was mentioned in an earlier post about Denmark and bow hunting, true they stand together but in Scandinavia there is a joined up mindset with gun, hunting,nature and the Nordic hunting Organisations in each country. We have gun laws, some very similar to Uk gun laws but they are in the main not interpreted as the police feel fit. We have a hunting exam that is compulsory. Pass the exam and then you have the right to hunting weapons. All this is clear and no problem. We will have bow hunting for smaller game like roe deer in Sweden in the not to distant future.
The application of Uk gun laws by the, powers that be, is a Cluster phuck. UK Shooting Organisations that could not organize a **** up in a brewery. A stalking test that is voluntary but you must have it to get a FAC The problem is there is no clarity or joined up thinking in the UK Shooting world. Plus of course successive governments who don't really give a phuck about the countryside or nature and the mass of the population completely out of touch with anything that can't be bought from a super market.
Is it to late for gun ownership, hunting and shooting in the UK? I think your on the brink. very sad.

 

[Border]

So true. The UK shooting scene is quite new compared to mainland Europe. It was mentioned in an earlier post about Denmark and bow hunting, true they stand together but in Scandinavia there is a joined up mindset with gun, hunting,nature and the Nordic hunting Organisations in each country. We have gun laws, some very similar to Uk gun laws but they are in the main not interpreted as the police feel fit. We have a hunting exam that is compulsory. Pass the exam and then you have the right to hunting weapons. All this is clear and no problem. We will have bow hunting for smaller game like roe deer in Sweden in the not to distant future.
The application of Uk gun laws by the, powers that be, is a Cluster phuck. UK Shooting Organisations that could not organize a **** up in a brewery. A stalking test that is voluntary but you must have it to get a FAC The problem is there is no clarity or joined up thinking in the UK Shooting world. Plus of course successive governments who don't really give a phuck about the countryside or nature and the mass of the population completely out of touch with anything that can't be bought from a super market.
Is it to late for gun ownership, hunting and shooting in the UK? I think your on the brink. very sad.

I think it is also the fact that hunting, fishing, gathering has been a part of the lifestyle of the Scandinavians forever. Everyone knows someone who hunts, if not family then friends. The hunting scene is a major part of rural life, as I suspect it used to be in the UK before townies invaded. There are generally few problems because most people accept that you hunt/fish/forage to be able to harvest a sustainable natural resource, be it deer, fish or berries/fungi. Although most things are better here sportwise we must'nt get too blinkered here either. Social media is one of the biggest offenders, where else can the vastly ill informed spout venom and bile and gain a greater audience? I believe that being media savvy and,although not being ashamed to admit what we do, be smarter at what we post and look at things from an outsiders point of view. The post about driven pheasants vs harvest your own free range pheasant was a great example about thinking outside the box.

 

[Tamar]

The US also has the Pittman-Robertson Act, which means an 11% tax on all firearms & ammunition goes direct to wildlife conservation. It would be nice to see 55% of the VAT we pay on firearms & ammunition go to conservation measures intended to enhance our sport but I can't imagine that getting past all the snowflakes.

Yes - it's a great idea. To have UK shooting organisations pushing for that sort of thing would do exactly what Buckaroo was suggesting. It takes the wind out of the sails of ofmany (but I accept not all) antis and literally puts our money where our mouths are. The 'snowflakes' could hardly object to wanting to give more money to conservation, or if they do, become exposed as hypocrites. Why do you think such a proposition wouldn't be supported all round?

It buys us goodwill, it does something proactive and if its a hypothecated tax, it takes money away from government control directly into an area that I hope that all of us support. Wins all round.

 

[Sylvanius]

I think your point about a lack of joined up thinking is correct - both in the UK shooting organisations and government. Unfortunately no one in government seems to see shooting as anything but an unfortunate inconvenience if part of it falls under their purview (like the Home Secretary - always a precarious post), and it's far easier to appease the disproportionately noisy antis amongst their voters than it is the quiet law abiding shooter.

But many of our fellow shooters do us no favours at all and basically do the antis work for them - dumping tens of shot pheasants in a layby, dumping gralloch or skins. legs etc (someone near where I work keeps doing this in a layby, and a guy where I live was doing the same until recently). These things are huge own-goals. Similarly a quick look at many of the shooting internet forums shows that on some there is an utter denial that there are people out there persecuting raptors - yet w know it does happen (plenty of video evidence if you look for it) thus again, that denial means the public sees us as all involved - why else would we be apparently defending it? ...As that is how it appears from the outside.

In my view we should be the ones shouting about raptor persecution where it happens, themembers of the shoots dumping pheasants should be objecting themselves, not waiting for a member of the public to find them and so on. We need to make clear that these things are outliers and do not reflect us at all. In pretending they don't happen, or just closing our eyes we play right into the antis hands and allow them to tar us all with the same brush. To me this is a role the shooting organisations could usefully take on, but seem to do little about. In short we need to publicly distance ourselves from those who bring our sport or work into disrepute, and do it loudly and publicly.

 

[BryanDC]

I think your point about a lack of joined up thinking is correct - both in the UK shooting organisations and government. Unfortunately no one in government seems to see shooting as anything but an unfortunate inconvenience if part of it falls under their purview (like the Home Secretary - always a precarious post), and it's far easier to appease the disproportionately noisy antis amongst their voters than it is the quiet law abiding shooter.

But many of our fellow shooters do us no favours at all and basically do the antis work for them - dumping tens of shot pheasants in a layby, dumping gralloch or skins. legs etc (someone near where I work keeps doing this in a layby, and a guy where I live was doing the same until recently). These things are huge own-goals. Similarly a quick look at many of the shooting internet forums shows that on some there is an utter denial that there are people out there persecuting raptors - yet w know it does happen (plenty of video evidence if you look for it) thus again, that denial means the public sees us as all involved - why else would we be apparently defending it? ...As that is how it appears from the outside.

In my view we should be the ones shouting about raptor persecution where it happens, themembers of the shoots dumping pheasants should be objecting themselves, not waiting for a member of the public to find them and so on. We need to make clear that these things are outliers and do not reflect us at all. In pretending they don't happen, or just closing our eyes we play right into the antis hands and allow them to tar us all with the same brush. To me this is a role the shooting organisations could usefully take on, but seem to do little about. In short we need to publicly distance ourselves from those who bring our sport or work into disrepute, and do it loudly and publicly.

You have a very good point here. The fieldsports community must stand up for its own ethical standards. Only by doing that can you show the public that the actions of these few idiots do not represent the majority. Here in Denmark the Jægerforbund (Danish Hunting Federation) is one of the first to publicly denounce anyone that breaks the laws on hunting. It is a great way to stop antis in their tracks.

 

[User00047]

Is it now too late to get Proactive???

 

[foxdropper]

Not if we act as one

 

[flying felix]

I've been saying for more than 25 years that the shooting community in the UK is fractured and its own worst enemy. The different fraternities and disciplines have muddled along hiding under bushes and all too willing to throw other shooting sports under the bus in a vein attempt to distract attention away from their own pastimes. How many times have we seen, even on this site, people posting:

"I don't see the need for people to own *, they should be banned"

* handgun, black guns, semi-autos, military style rifles, .50, MARS, etc.

So after years of the game shooting fraternity turning their backs on the target shooting sports, it is now their turn to be targeted by the antis', and now wanting the target shooters to come to their aid and support.

This division isn't just target Vs game. Some of the biggest disdain I've witnessed first hand has been between different disciplines of target shooting.

The only way we survive is for all shooters, regardless of discipline, to support unequivocally all other shooting sports.

Remember the words of Martin Niemöller.

 

[User00035]

Too late to do anything.
Shooting as we know it is doomed, it’s just a matter of time.
Too many organisations with their own agendas.
No constitution protecting our rights like USA.
Increasingly a Police state.
No politicians with ball$.
I could go on but I’d have to go on anti depressants

That's what they want you to think.

 

[foxdropper]

Some would say Karma for the hunting act where more than enough shooters said good enough ..

 

[kes]

If there was a focal point around which to gather then I feel sure very many would and would offer their time and efforts to bring order and direction where currently there is a 'dads army' type grouping.

 

[sauer]

Been saying for last three years we need to get proactive

And still folk carry on head in sand

“ I’m not looking I’m not listening it won’t effect me”




Not only having to fight the anti and try to influence the general public

But also deal with the apathy and [emoji90]. Within our own ranks


Paul

 

[stubear]

Been saying for last three years we need to get proactive

And still folk carry on head in sand

“ I’m not looking I’m not listening it won’t effect me”




Not only having to fight the anti and try to influence the general public

But also deal with the apathy and [emoji90]. Within our own ranks


Paul

I think the latter is the biggest problem at the moment TBH.

When you've got the leather jacket and iron sight TR brigade hammering the sporting hunters for shooting at living things, the sporting hunters infighting over head shots, lead free ammo, which caliber is too big and god knows what else, and then calling the TR brigade a bunch of wet blankets and people in both camps hammering the libertarian brigade (of which I am one) for daring to suggest that the pistol and semi auto rifle bans be lifted, and the shotgun shooters all keeping their heads down because its mainly the FAC holders that are getting a caning its not hard to see how the politicians are able to divide and conquer.

The fifty cal ban shows what we can achieve if we put our collective heads together.

I think theres a few things we all should have in our minds as gun owners in the UK;
1) If someone is suggesting ANYTHING be banned or further restricted then there should be evidence to back up that claim, not just vague "what if" statements.
2) We're all legally vetted and licenced individuals who should be able to buy whatever the f*ck we want to so long as we have somewhere to store it and use it. You're licenced, you're a member of a club, you're background checked and you have safe storage at home. that should be job done. You want a pistol? Crack on. Combat shooting or 3 gun events with a semi autos? Go for your life. 50 cal? Why yes please, I will thank you. Prefer the look of black plastic and ceracote to wood and bluing? Its an aesthetic choice, do what you want. You wouldnt expect to get gyp because you bought a blue car and not a red one, p*ss off with telling me what style of gun I should shoot.
3) No particular shooting discipline is better than another. Support them all or lose them all.
4) Just because you shoot with iron sights (or dont) or only shoot paper (or dont) or only head shoot deer (or dont) or whatever else doesnt make you better or worse than anyone else. If you shoot enough deer you will lose one, if you shoot enough paper you will miss or get a crap score. Celebrate the successes together and commiserate the defeats together, and stop dumping on other people. The only thing we should condemn is a disregard for our quarry and dangerous gun handling.
5) If someone is spouting claptrap on the internet then challenge them by all means but rise above the anti numpties with their death threats and what not. They play a clever social media game in an environment which is already not that favourable for shooting. Dont give them more ammo to twist out of context.

I could go on but its as simple as this. United we stand and divided we fall.

 

[CarlW]

I think the latter is the biggest problem at the moment TBH.

When you've got the leather jacket and iron sight TR brigade hammering the sporting hunters for shooting at living things, the sporting hunters infighting over head shots, lead free ammo, which caliber is too big and god knows what else, and then calling the TR brigade a bunch of wet blankets and people in both camps hammering the libertarian brigade (of which I am one) for daring to suggest that the pistol and semi auto rifle bans be lifted, and the shotgun shooters all keeping their heads down because its mainly the FAC holders that are getting a caning its not hard to see how the politicians are able to divide and conquer.

The fifty cal ban shows what we can achieve if we put our collective heads together.

I think theres a few things we all should have in our minds as gun owners in the UK;
1) If someone is suggesting ANYTHING be banned or further restricted then there should be evidence to back up that claim, not just vague "what if" statements.
2) We're all legally vetted and licenced individuals who should be able to buy whatever the f*ck we want to so long as we have somewhere to store it and use it. You're licenced, you're a member of a club, you're background checked and you have safe storage at home. that should be job done. You want a pistol? Crack on. Combat shooting or 3 gun events with a semi autos? Go for your life. 50 cal? Why yes please, I will thank you. Prefer the look of black plastic and ceracote to wood and bluing? Its an aesthetic choice, do what you want. You wouldnt expect to get gyp because you bought a blue car and not a red one, p*ss off with telling me what style of gun I should shoot.
3) No particular shooting discipline is better than another. Support them all or lose them all.
4) Just because you shoot with iron sights (or dont) or only shoot paper (or dont) or only head shoot deer (or dont) or whatever else doesnt make you better or worse than anyone else. If you shoot enough deer you will lose one, if you shoot enough paper you will miss or get a crap score. Celebrate the successes together and commiserate the defeats together, and stop dumping on other people. The only thing we should condemn is a disregard for our quarry and dangerous gun handling.
5) If someone is spouting claptrap on the internet then challenge them by all means but rise above the anti numpties with their death threats and what not. They play a clever social media game in an environment which is already not that favourable for shooting. Dont give them more ammo to twist out of context.

I could go on but its as simple as this. United we stand and divided we fall.

What a great post.

 

[foxdropper]

So long as healthy ,sometimes heated discussion isn’t construed as division .
Without discussion what is the purpose of sites like this .

 

[The deer man]

No wonder we have our backs against the wall with all the defeatists here.
I mean; 90% of shooters do bugger-all to protect their sport, yet come to sites like this & bleat about how we're doomed.
Well how about instead of posting your whines on here, you get in touch with your MP, write to the Home office & if you don't like BASC, join one of the other organisations & bloody well write to THEM if you don't think they're doing enough?
I'm a member of three shooting organisations & am becoming ever more involved in local issues, plus I badger my MP incessantly & all it takes is a couple of hours a week.

Get your arses in gear, stop whining pointlessly & bloody well DO something.

Well said, some of the comments and attitudes on here are pathetic! A little more energy directed in the right place would serve us all better.
And there is something being organised...

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[The deer man]

Apologies, I know I am a bit of an outsider these days, but, I have to ask what on earth is going on in the UK?

It seems like everyone is working to their own agenda instead of working together. It's seems incredible that organisations like the BASC aren't doing more and that only 2500 members of the BASC actually bothered to vote. (I guess most are only members for the insurance).

There are three threads running at the moment, all with themes about bashing the fieldsports community in one way or another.

How big is the fieldsports community in the UK? (The FACE website estimates 800,000 shooting in the UK and that’s not including all the fishermen and other fieldsports enthusiasts) You have a voice, use it at the polling station. write to your MP. Demand he or she replies to you and if they are anti make sure you tell everyone you can in the shooting / hunting / fishing community so that they don't get those votes next time.

How many publications and equipment manufacturers are there? They should all be on board or they won’t have a market for their products. It’s about time someone started to get everyone else together. At the moment it seems like all the fieldsports community can do is defend itself rather than positively promote itself.

Stop bashing other fieldsports. I’m not a trophy hunter and I don’t personally want to go on a big bag pheasant shoot but I know people that do both and that’s up to them. I have no doubt that game shooting does need to get its house in order. There is absolutely no excuse for throwing excess pheasants into holes in the ground, they need to put some effort in and find a market, then positively promote what they are doing.

Fox hunting is banned.Who is next?

Fieldsports contributes billions of pounds to the economy. 1% of it would be an enormous sum to positively promote fieldsports of all types.

Unfortunately Bryan many people find it easier to go BASC bashing or similar organisation and blame everything on "they". Actually pull their thumbs out and and do something constructive is "not my job".

It would be interesting to know how many people have written to their MP this week. How many people have spoken/written to their association this week. How many hours have people spent lobbying for supporters this week. How many people have donated anything to the shooting cause this week.

I do wonder how many people on here are actually 'antis' pretending to be shooters who claim to own lots of rifles because it seems they're popping up all over the place now the ***** hit the fan!

 

[Silvius]

Yes we need to be proactive. The problem is we have a democracy where the vast majority of the voters know nothing about our world and so the antis have had the playing field to themselves. Everyone likes the idea of lovely little animals living in harmony as shown by Odd Billy, Chris Packham and the national liberal indoctrination service (BBC). The closest they get to the land is walking through the hills in a hermetically sealed Goretex bubble "taking nothing but photographs and leaving nothing but footprints". The outdoors is a theme park or a sanitised adventure playground but not a real ecosystem in which they are a living part. Where they come from gun and crime are used in the same sentence.

The only way we can have any hope is to get telling our stories in public, try to get the famous people who hunt to stand up for their sport with pride (most hide it away like a mistress -a secret you don't mention outside your circle of friends so as not to upset people), try to get the ordinary landless poor to value the land (and that is mighty hard I this country where they have no stake, where there is not public land where you can just get a hunting permit or even cut some firewood).

The successful battle will be less with protests than with the common touch through media. Some common ground has to be found, something has to make hunting inspirational and aspirational to the ordinary folk who don't want to pay the money you would need to start from scratch, paying for all your stalking and who never were given an air rifle and enough space to shoot vermin when they were young.

Can it be done -yes I think so. Will it be done -dunno. Would I be up for trying yes, if only I were the sort of person who had confident agency with media. I don't but some people must. They should try and we should support them.

There are loads of young lads who would love to have a legal gun and hunt if only two conditions were met -first and foremost -they actually believed they would ever be allowed one and ever get a shot at anything (from the outside I hear many people say -"Its just impossible, I don't know how to start"). Second if only anyone in their friend circle had the balls to stand up and admit he would like to do so too. The enemy has the moral high ground. We need to get mobilised

 

[deerly departed]

scotland is god’s Country, no doubt,,just seems god has been on holiday for a few years and let a bunch of idiots run the place! Lol

If Scotland is in Gods country then ya must have really peed him off

It is a shame peoples fighting spirit is ****. Whats the phrase.... grow some. Sorry but shooting is my sport. My passion and as a community we seem happy to be repeatedly p155ed on.

I will go down fighting my corner but with some shooters attitudes we deserve to get shafted. I bloody despair.