Tried lead free

[Ronin]

Markup probably not good enough!

I’d like to think that isn’t a factor with these people

I’m not a member of their channel and said that when I left them the message

Least they don’t mercilessly lost each piece of kit they’re using during each piece

There’s another you tube “expert channel” that does this and an instant turn off for me

Chris Parkin does some very good reviews with no bull s xxt

 

[Tazz]

While we all have our views on non lead I look forward to some “ unbiased “ reviews using ballistic gel at hunting ranges then the discussions will get more facts to discuss

 

[Heym SR20]

While we all have our views on non lead I look forward to some “ unbiased “ reviews using ballistic gel at hunting ranges then the discussions will get more facts to discuss

If you look at most bullet manufacturers websites you will see ballistic gel videos, and you will see very little difference between shock channel, wound channel etc between all the different types of bullets regardless of what materials they are made from. Yes some are constructed as rapidly expanding, others deep penetrating. You get tough lead bulets and highly frangible lead bullets. You get tough non-toxic bullets and you get frangible non-toxic bullets. Eg RWS HIT, vs RWS Evo Green



Put either of those through a deer and you would need to be a very good vet to sort out the damage.

There has been plenty of studies carried. The ammo manufacturers will have shot hundreds if not thousands before bringing such bullets to the market. Lead free bullets have now been used for many years elsewhere in the world.

And there have been plenty of studies carried out by agencies shooting large numbers of deer into the efficacy of particular types of ammo including non-toxic.

The Fieldsports trial was pretty conclusive. If you look at the early videos you will see that many of stalkers were pretty ambivalent, if not negative towards non-toxic. End result speaks for itself.

I have been using non-toxic for a few years. No I have not shot hundreds of deer, but have shot several, at ranges from 40 yards to 250. Clean kills and clean carcasses. Some have run, some have dropped to spot. I have really not noticed any difference other than a cleaner carcass.

 

[MarinePMI]

I would also add, that with copper bullets, you want to load for pressure, moreso than velocity.

Copper bullets like to be run hot; the theory being that the harder copper bullets need more pressure to obturate into the lands and grooves more uniformly. I bring this up because some here are mentioning 308 with a slower (1-12) twist and assume that some are using shorter barrels for stalking work.

That being said, a slightly faster powder, with a steeper pressure curve, would probably be a better plan with regards to copper bullets in a shorter barrel.

JMHO...

 

[Ronin]

Many of the copper monoliths use drive bands (from artillery tech) so pressure is actually reduced as only the drive band is swaged into the lands

It’s a good point though for those makes that do not have them

 

[Magnificent 7]

Suggest you try 130 class in your 308

Seat initially with decent jump to the lands (no less than .050”)


Factory ammunition - try 130 no heavier

Regardless of where the ammunition was bought , it wasn’t necessarily the right advice given by the vendor

Try again

I wouldn't mind i had my mind changed i intended to buy 130 lol

 

[User00040]

While we all have our views on non lead I look forward to some “ unbiased “ reviews using ballistic gel at hunting ranges then the discussions will get more facts to discuss

No, a 2 meter long block of ballistic gel cut to X dimensions (or even a water tank, as the field sports channel used to 'prove expansion'... yeah, right!) isn't going to give you the same results which are comparable to a live animal/carcass, which can vary widely even between the same species in an area.

Better to shoot different species and sizes of animals and compare them for yourself.

I have and will say that copper bullets can perform well in hand loaded cartridges, but the performance comparison between that and a factory loaded cartridge with the same bullet is noticeably poorer, and more expensive to boot!

I have been using non-toxic for a few years. No I have not shot hundreds of deer, but have shot several, at ranges from 40 yards to 250. Clean kills and clean carcasses. Some have run, some have dropped to spot. I have really not noticed any difference other than a cleaner carcass.

Wallet not a bit lighter?

If we carry on down this path, shooting might as well become a pastime limited to those on £50k+ a year...

I prefer rough shooting to driven game.

I prefer shooting crows/pigeons (with lead shot ) to pheasants/grouse.

I prefer being out on my own (with dog in tow) and not paying for stalking, in fact, I've gone out of my way to be paid for it... which probably explains why I don't earn much!

 

[Ronin]

The next one taken at longer range I’ll photograph and skin

I won’t be going out with the intention of taking longer shot though

 

[Heym SR20]

No, a 2 meter long block of ballistic gel cut to X dimensions (or even a water tank, as the field sports channel used to 'prove expansion'... yeah, right!) isn't going to give you the same results which are comparable to a live animal/carcass, which can vary widely even between the same species in an area.

Better to shoot different species and sizes of animals and compare them for yourself.

I have and will say that copper bullets can perform well in hand loaded cartridges, but the performance comparison between that and a factory loaded cartridge with the same bullet is noticeably poorer, and more expensive to boot!



Wallet not a bit lighter?

If we carry on down this path, shooting might as well become a pastime limited to those on £50k+ a year...

I prefer rough shooting to driven game.

I prefer shooting crows/pigeons to pheasants/grouse.

I prefer being out on my own (with dog in tow) and not paying for stalking, in fact, I've gone out of my way to be paid for it... which probably explains why I don't earn much!

Wallet a bit lighter - not really, as I don’t shoot huge numbers of deer. For my 7x65r I got an end of old packaging deal on several boxes of RWS HIT ammo. With the 7x57 and 243 I use the Fox bullets and reload. And yes 50 bullets cost about the same as 100 lead bullets. But realistically the additional cost is £1 or £2 per deer - if that. And made up for by less meat damage.

And like you much prefer Wildfowling and rough shooting and a slab of 250 cartridges lasts a long time.

 

[Magnificent 7]

Well...this has been an interesting read.

1. The OP's grammar sucks donkey dick, and the punctuation was non-existent. He appeared to have the intelligence of the local village idiot. Yes, there are idiot savants, but they're the exception, not the rule. If he likes the appearance, hey, press on. But he shouldn't be surprised if people comment on it either. Cause=Effect

2. Copper bullet ammo does perform well on game. Just as well as old cup and core lead bullets, or even partitioned core bullets.

3. The old adage "You have to be smarter than the gear differently due to weight and lubricity of the copper under pressure. It's neither bad, nor good. Just different. Copper bullets have been around for 20+ years, so there's nothing new here that hasn't been learned.

4. Biases are just that; biased. And they mean nothing when you have no choice but to use copper bullets. "It doesn't matter how cold the river is, when you have to get to the other side" ~Top Ten Things I Learned From My Hunting Dog.

Ha ha the village idiot ive been called a lot worse.English wasn't my best subject but tbh it hasn't hampered me in life im still turning a coin.

 

[Magnificent 7]

Wallet a bit lighter - not really, as I don’t shoot huge numbers of deer. For my 7x65r I got an end of old packaging deal on several boxes of RWS HIT ammo. With the 7x57 and 243 I use the Fox bullets and reload. And yes 50 bullets cost about the same as 100 lead bullets. But realistically the additional cost is £1 or £2 per deer - if that. And made up for by less meat damage.

And like you much prefer Wildfowling and rough shooting and a slab of 250 cartridges lasts a long time.

The cost doesn't bother me in the grand scheme of things last year I shot 53 deer and 3 boar not massive amounts by some but more than others.If it cost 4 pound a round its hardly breaking the bank is it.Im just wanting to enjoy my sport if it costs a bit more its hardly breaking the bank for a freezer full of meat.

 

[Rutland lad]

My opinion here is firmly in the ‘copper works’ group.
This is because over the last 8 years I’ve shot 180 grain Barnes TSX in my .300 Winmag. It’s not a hot load, it’s running at around 2700 fps.
It always leaves a good blood trail on chest shots, and they don’t go far, perhaps no more than 15m in all those years.
Even muntjac with a shoulder shot don’t suffer to much meat damage, and certainly less than my old .243 using 105 grain Geco.
I’m essentially a woodland stalker and my longest shot there is 215m on fallow which dropped within two steps.
My mate who is a PH in Africa and helped me with load development says he wouldn’t want to shoot that load at more than 350m. That’s great, cos neither would I !
All my animals go into the food chain so I’m more than happy to continue and hopefully soon will have a load sorted in copper for my 6.5 x 55. I have Fox in 123 grain and Barnes TTSX in 120 to develop. Time will tell.

 

[bullet chucker]

(Report back from my comment 29)......100yd
Able to shoot the 150gn Fox Factory 30.06 today, was not expecting much,but I thought these were a bit better than some reports above? Measured roughly at about. one inch and a quarter centres, I was scoped up for my Sako 150gn which I am really happy with,so if the time comes where non lead is to be used I have only to adjust, 8 up X 7 across should' put me on the money,drop the mag down from 25X to a sensible figure, for a steadier shot at a beast!

BC.

 

[Shadrach2986]

I was only reading this the other day, its food for thought. Couple of interesting videos as well.

Copper bullets can be inhumane

The truth about copper bullets versus lead core bullet designs

www.ballisticstudies.com

 

[Selous]

I was only reading this the other day, its food for thought. Couple of interesting videos as well.

Copper bullets can be inhumane

The truth about copper bullets versus lead core bullet designs

www.ballisticstudies.com

This has been extensively discussed in another thread

 

[Shadrach2986]

This has been extensively discussed in another thread

Thanks will have a look for it.

 

[Roestalker39]

Wallet a bit lighter - not really, as I don’t shoot huge numbers of deer. For my 7x65r I got an end of old packaging deal on several boxes of RWS HIT ammo. With the 7x57 and 243 I use the Fox bullets and reload. And yes 50 bullets cost about the same as 100 lead bullets. But realistically the additional cost is £1 or £2 per deer - if that. And made up for by less meat damage.

And like you much prefer Wildfowling and rough shooting and a slab of 250 cartridges lasts a long time.

What about us who do shoot large numbers of deer ? Are we to abandon our cull plans and shoot less ?
As usual this seems very I’m alright jack .....

 

[StephenToast]

What about us who do shoot large numbers of deer ? Are we to abandon our cull plans and shoot less ?
As usual this seems very I’m alright jack .....

I don't know how much of a worry this really is.

I probably shoot 250-300 rounds of .30-06 a year including deer, hares and foxes etc. I guess there is a £1 difference per round so it costs me an extra £300. That's ten, maybe fifteen roe does to the dealer and that cost is covered.

 

[Leec6.5]

There’s naff all in the price

I don't know how much of a worry this really is.

I probably shoot 250-300 rounds a year including deer and foxes. I guess there is a £1 difference per round so it costs me an extra £300. That's ten, maybe fifteen roe does to the dealer and that cost is covered.

Shoot 15kg 1 roe @ £1/kg = £15

1 x fox hunter factory for my .270 = £2.40 a pop (£48 for 20)

by my maths that’s £12,60 up.

or if you reload £1.50 a pop

you can more than cover ammunition costs by using non lead offerings.

 

[Selous]

In the great scheme of things the ammo costs are small compared to vehicle and travel costs. Also look at it another way, if you use non lead ammunition you will have a saleable carcass but not necessarily if you use lead.... so by deduction can you afford NOT to use a non lead bullet?