Turning a Combination Gun into a Double Rifle

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
I already have a very nice Ferlach built combination gun in 16bore over a 7x65R. It looks as if I am going to get an increasing amount of wild boar shooting over the next few years both driven and from highseat. I am already very impressed by the 7x65R and with the right cartridge it delivers a real thump. To date when overseas I have loaded a 16 bore slug in the top barrel, but have't yet used one in anger.

For between €800 and €1,100 (depending on from where and what brand) I can fit a removable 7x65R barrel into the shot barrel and turn it into a double rifle. The gun fits me well and I shoot well with it. This would give me a double rifle for use on driven game. A quick flick of the wrist and the empties are out and its reloaded. A double gets shot number two away very quickly. Yes with a bolt action or straight pull, numbers 3 and 4 or 5 are there, but then you need to reload. It is also very portable and packs down into a small case. I have recently used it on running bore targets and to kill my first running pig - a 70yard shot as it came charging out of a field of rape that was being cut. Running fast and one shot with a 177gn RWS bullet and it tumbled like a rabbit. So I am confident that I can shoot well with it.

I have thought about getting a 222 level of Einstecklauf, but actually see little utility. Doesn't provide a useful second shot on bigger game, and on foxes and Roe, I have found the 139gn load I have very effective.

Alternatively I could put the funds towards a left handed bolt action in 30-06 or 7x64, but I then also have to add in cost of scopes etc, its not as portable and to be honest decent left hand rifles are like hens teeth. Realistically I need the thick end of £2,000 for another left hand rifle. Also are the fun and games of getting a variation for another rifle, rather than just a spare barrel for an existing gun.

I know that a lot are moving towards using straight pull Blaser R8s etc, but I don't want one. As far as I am concerned, polymers, torx screws etc are fine for use on military weapons, or for stocks, but not on fine firearms.

Before I press the button on this, am I being vaguely sensible - probably not but.....
 

Greener Jim

Well-Known Member
You're being completely sensible. It's cheaper, prettier, better handling and faster shooting (for two shots) than the next best option, plus you get to keep a rifle you very much like and with which you already have great confidence.

Would you need the firing pin bushed on the 16-bore lock?
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
You're being completely sensible. It's cheaper, prettier, better handling and faster shooting (for two shots) than the next best option, plus you get to keep a rifle you very much like and with which you already have great confidence.

Would you need the firing pin bushed on the 16-bore lock?
nope - already bushed!

and thanks for your vote of confidence.
 
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Southern

Well-Known Member
I think it is a great idea. There was a discussion of this on SDUK a year ago, and some links to various rifle barrel inserts for shotgun barrels. I posted a few, myself. Some, like the full-length Krieghoff barrels, are not inexpensive, and are made to fit their barrels and lengths, with adjustable regulation at the muzzle. Some shorter ones which are only about half-length are intriguing to me, with a pistol bullet like the .44 Special or .357 Magnum.

https://www.krieghoff.de/en/infoextra/glossary/glossary-detail/ks-insert-barrel/
 
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Mungo

Well-Known Member
Nope.

I think it's a bad idea. Retrofitted solutions seldom work terribly well. The thing was designed and built to be 16 bore over 7x65r. Converting the shotgun barrel will only ever be a jury rig. Yes - you could get it done REALLY well by someone who REALLY knows what they're doing (Alan Rhone of similar) - but even then, my guess is that the outcome will always be just...ok. Passable.

I'd go the whole hog and get the variation - they're slow, but Fettes are being amazingly open minded. They let me have two .270s, after all...

If it were me, I'd sell the .243 (which you almost never use) and get a specialist piggy gun. 9.3x62 or .30-06, bolt action. That also leaves you the option of using it on the Africa trip...

Or get the variation and just wait for the right double to come along. There's a Heym 26b in .30-06 on Guntrader right now.

Meanwhile, I need to talked out of getting a Heym threaded for a moderator...
 
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enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
I think that as long as the insert can be adjusted to shoot to p.o.a as the sight, or sights, it's an excellent idea.

Plus you've the shot gun barrel with you all the time if you remove the insert should you need it the following day or later in the week. And as 16 bore slug is quite effective but illegal on deer in the UK your insert makes it legal, in both barrels, as a "double rifle" in 7x65mm.
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Nope.

I think it's a bad idea. Retrofitted solutions seldom work terribly well. The thing was designed and built to be 16 bore over 7x65r. Converting the shotgun barrel will only ever be a jury rig. Yes - you could get it done REALLY well by someone who REALLY knows what they're doing (Alan Rhone of similar) - but even then, my guess is that the outcome will always be just...ok. Passable.

I'd go the whole hog and get the variation - they're slow, but Fettes are being amazingly open minded. They let me have two .270s, after all...

Meanwhile, I need to talked out of getting a Heym threaded for a moderator...
i hear what you say. A double in any non rimmed calibre is a bad idea as ejection is an issue, or can be. Einstecklaufs if fitted correctly work well, but yes a dedicated 9.3 would be nice.

Now as as for threading that Heym. Well there is a certain place in hell reserved for those who mess with such fine rifles. It shoots well - don't mess with it. If it didn't have open sights and you had an invisible thread protector then perhaps. If you have have to have a mod then thread the old Sako.
 

bigoak

Well-Known Member
Sounds Interesting. Would the rifle barrrl be removable?
Obviously the extra weight will sffect ghe handling.
 

Mr. Gain

Well-Known Member
I too have had leanings toward an einstecklauf, but am now entertaining thoughts of a double, although I think this will mean buying new as I also shoot left-handed. Perhaps I should be looking into the cost of restocking a S/H gun?

As for threading a Heym, I had my SR30 done by Mike Norris. He did a lovely job of moving the front sight back just far enough to thread the barrel and made an invisible thread protector for it before reblacking everything to match.
 

mchughcb

Well-Known Member
I have a combo and then bought a second barrel set to make it a double. I think you are better off buying a cheap double in the calibre you want. There are some good bargains on egun.de .
 

Mungo

Well-Known Member
As for threading a Heym, I had my SR30 done by Mike Norris. He did a lovely job of moving the front sight back just far enough to thread the barrel and made an invisible thread protector for it before reblacking everything to match.
Funny you should mention him - he's the man I've been talking to...
 

Mungo

Well-Known Member
i hear what you say. A double in any non rimmed calibre is a bad idea as ejection is an issue, or can be. Einstecklaufs if fitted correctly work well, but yes a dedicated 9.3 would be nice.

Now as as for threading that Heym. Well there is a certain place in hell reserved for those who mess with such fine rifles. It shoots well - don't mess with it. If it didn't have open sights and you had an invisible thread protector then perhaps. If you have have to have a mod then thread the old Sako.
It's not the one you think...
 

reiver

Well-Known Member
Www
I too have had leanings toward an einstecklauf, but am now entertaining thoughts of a double, although I think this will mean buying new as I also shoot left-handed. Perhaps I should be looking into the cost of restocking a S/H gun?

As for threading a Heym, I had my SR30 done by Mike Norris. He did a lovely job of moving the front sight back just far enough to thread the barrel and made an invisible thread protector for it before reblacking everything to match.
I am also a left hander who shoots a double 9.3 Berreta trying to find a left handed double New,or other wise is a bit like winning the lottery .
I bought a right handed rifle and had the cast altered to suit me by the stocker who did it in a day and charged me £80 . The trick is finding a double at the right price with wood that will can be bent and stay in its,New position. That's the risk you take if all else failed on my gun the stock from a,Lh 20 bore 686 would fit as anatertive option.if I needed a plan B.
Also finding a stocker who can fit you and your double locally is a big help when having the fitting done.
All in all through it was still more cost-effective than buying new even with the risk of having to buy a spare stock.
 
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Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
I have a combo and then bought a second barrel set to make it a double. I think you are better off buying a cheap double in the calibre you want. There are some good bargains on egun.de .
agreed, but am still looking at €2 to €3,000 for a decent double. There is a nice Merkel at €2,500. Have thought about a bespoke barrel set, but Ferlach built gun it's not cheap. I was quoted €15,000 by the maker a few years ago for the complete gun, set of barrels €5,000 plus.

In answer to another contributor, yes Einstecklauf are removable. They a snug fit and usually a tap or two with a wooden block to remove. Not a job for in the field, but 30 seconds on the kitchen table. They tend to go back to the same point of aim. They add a bit of weight, but for mine that's no bad thing.
 

Mr. Gain

Well-Known Member
I bought a right handed rifle and had the cast altered to suit me by the stocker who did it in a day and charged me £80. The trick is finding a double at the right price with wood that will can be bent and stay in its new position. [...] All in all though it was still more cost-effective than buying new even with the risk of having to buy a spare stock.
The problem -as I see it- is that, unlike shotgun stocks, BBF, Drilling and double rifle stocks are made with cheek-pieces. Now, I get on OK with the fact that my own BBF and Drilling have the cheek-piece on the wrong side for me, and thus in effect have no cheek piece at all, but I would really rather have a proper left-handed -not just cast-on- stock for any new addition to my arsenal.

Nevertheless, given that newer guns are made in considerable quantities and largely by machine, I seems not unlikely that stocks are now made to fit whatever action they happen to be offered up to with as little hand fitting as possible. If this is so, it ought also to be possible to obtain a replacement L/H at much lower cost than having what is effectively a bespoke stock made and fitted from scratch. I've never heard of anyone doing this, however. The nearest I've come was with my Brno 502 BBF, when I came within a whisker of getting a L/H stock direct from the factory, only for the plan to be foiled by the restructuring of the firm (which sadly also cost my contact his job).
 
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Southern

Well-Known Member
Large distributors / super dealers of Beretta and Browning usually keep an assortment of spare factory wood, so you can change a RH double shotgun to left hand, or change the fit, or upgrade the wood. I did that with my Browning Citori 28 gauge skeet gun, putting on a field stock, to make it a fine quail and grouse gun for me.
 
The main issue will be the extractor for the rifle tube, if you want the 16 bore as an option then another seperate extractor needs to go in as well. regulating the tube could also be a thing of wonder unless you are lucky. I have done sveral sleeve jobs on s/s doubles and they remain short range woodland guns .
 

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