Two days, three lions, three gin traps
- Thread starter CarlW
- Start date
catch the bastard and stick his bollocks in the trap! ****s
Hi Carl
Got to admit to being pretty upset when I saw those photos. It was a complete shock as I was just casually browsing.
Good work that you are doing there.
I showed the photos to the family and it sparked an interesting debate over dinner this evening. Me, mum and the two boys, 14 and 12. We recognised that using traps such as this to catch wild dogs in Australia is something that we have historically supported. For example, @johngryphon in Victoria. It made us ask the question as to why we are happy to do this to one predator species, but not to another.
I shot a very large feral cat last week, which on our local New Zealand forum is a cause for celebration. Yet on this forum posting a photo of my feline trophy is banned, so I don’t do it out of respect for the rules. If anyone here in NZ put out a gin trap to catch a dog, or shot a dog that was just mooching around in a paddock, not causing any problems (the feral cat was stalking a rabbit), then there would be all hell to pay in the neighbourhood. Dogs that are worrying sheep stand a good chance of getting shot though.
It was a thought-provoking discussion and one that caused us to question our sanity at times. Lions are extremely emotive and dare I say “precious” to us, from our experiences of them over many years in Africa. But this example goes to show how we adjust our shock and outrage according to the species and the circumstances hey. The level of suffering remains the same, one is considered horrific, the other is something I admit I would not stop if the wild dogs were on my property somewhere in Aus.
Of course if you were to ask the locals where you are now, then you would likely get a whole different level of responses to the same questions. We went through the whole lion trapping experience up near Palma, way up in the far north of Mozambique in 2000. Horrible, confronting, upsetting, educational, hard to fathom.
We are a complex and extremely diverse species ourselves, capable of some brutal acts to animals and to our fellow man, some are ok, some aren’t, depending.
Got to admit to being pretty upset when I saw those photos. It was a complete shock as I was just casually browsing.
Good work that you are doing there.
I showed the photos to the family and it sparked an interesting debate over dinner this evening. Me, mum and the two boys, 14 and 12. We recognised that using traps such as this to catch wild dogs in Australia is something that we have historically supported. For example, @johngryphon in Victoria. It made us ask the question as to why we are happy to do this to one predator species, but not to another.
I shot a very large feral cat last week, which on our local New Zealand forum is a cause for celebration. Yet on this forum posting a photo of my feline trophy is banned, so I don’t do it out of respect for the rules. If anyone here in NZ put out a gin trap to catch a dog, or shot a dog that was just mooching around in a paddock, not causing any problems (the feral cat was stalking a rabbit), then there would be all hell to pay in the neighbourhood. Dogs that are worrying sheep stand a good chance of getting shot though.
It was a thought-provoking discussion and one that caused us to question our sanity at times. Lions are extremely emotive and dare I say “precious” to us, from our experiences of them over many years in Africa. But this example goes to show how we adjust our shock and outrage according to the species and the circumstances hey. The level of suffering remains the same, one is considered horrific, the other is something I admit I would not stop if the wild dogs were on my property somewhere in Aus.
Of course if you were to ask the locals where you are now, then you would likely get a whole different level of responses to the same questions. We went through the whole lion trapping experience up near Palma, way up in the far north of Mozambique in 2000. Horrible, confronting, upsetting, educational, hard to fathom.
We are a complex and extremely diverse species ourselves, capable of some brutal acts to animals and to our fellow man, some are ok, some aren’t, depending.
Thought provoking
Judging the value of animals by their appeal or importance to us is a very common human trait and is of itself an utter conceit
I think there might be some differences between the two comparisons you have made
The poachers have no business being on the reserve - in your NZ case the dogs are on your land - does that make a difference ? I think so but it is a judgement call
In this case the motive is not stock protection but the use of a creature in some absurdly useless concoction - there are cases where these animals threaten the lives and livelihoods of locals and they have always been dealt with as part of a hearts and minds initiative - that is not the situation here
No matter the justification are the use of traps acceptable given the level of injury distress and pain they cause?
I asked this of a group I was teaching primitive weapons and traps to yesterday - like you it generated a lively debate - (most declined the offer to see Carl's pictures though (interesting !))
Judging the value of animals by their appeal or importance to us is a very common human trait and is of itself an utter conceit
I think there might be some differences between the two comparisons you have made
The poachers have no business being on the reserve - in your NZ case the dogs are on your land - does that make a difference ? I think so but it is a judgement call
In this case the motive is not stock protection but the use of a creature in some absurdly useless concoction - there are cases where these animals threaten the lives and livelihoods of locals and they have always been dealt with as part of a hearts and minds initiative - that is not the situation here
No matter the justification are the use of traps acceptable given the level of injury distress and pain they cause?
I asked this of a group I was teaching primitive weapons and traps to yesterday - like you it generated a lively debate - (most declined the offer to see Carl's pictures though (interesting !))
In Northern Moz @bowji john, the Chinese were in the region illegally logging hardwoods and poaching animals, like lion, that had some ridiculous “value” to them. We spent some time with a Jesuit priest (German) and his African family in Mocimboa do Praia - they got us over the over into Tanzania, a whole other story in itself - and we learnt a lot about the wholesale theft of resources and wildlife by the Chinese. And how the Moz authorities turned a blind eye. My loathing of the Oriental ways in Africa knows no bounds. Makes me angry every time.
Good work Carl and team.
A quiet word with the local blacksmiths? Who is ordering the traps from them?
Alan
A quiet word with the local blacksmiths? Who is ordering the traps from them?
Alan
Found this complementary site...and complimentary about the ranger team...
www.savingthesurvivors.org
2 lions from a Pride caught in Gin traps – STS
Saving The Survivors is called to help two Lions from a pride who have suffered nasty gin trap wounds left by poachers
www.savingthesurvivors.org
Cumbrian 1
Well-Known Member
Harrowing pictures indeed and a good reminder to those naysayers who claim that big game hunting is detrimental to wildlife.
Looking at the “saving the survivors” website they don’t mention that area is a private hunting block and even gives you a button to click at the bottom to donate!
Carl do they ever help you?
Looking at the “saving the survivors” website they don’t mention that area is a private hunting block and even gives you a button to click at the bottom to donate!
Carl do they ever help you?
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Sorry I haven't been around, fellas.
Our scouts at the coutada have arrested all six poachers, and identified the man controlling them. I won't share any more detail on that while the prosecution is underway.
Obviously, we now have an additional security challenge of ensuring the safety of the arresting scouts.
We work with a number of 'green' organisations, including STS (whom we know through our vet). They are fabulous. Most of the ones we deal with are really pragmatic guys (you have to be in Africa). However, few of them want to 'take us home to mum' for fear of any backlash.
We don't have a charitable arm so the best way to join the fight is to :
1. come and hunt (as @Cumbrian 1 says); or
2. come on one of John's scouting courses in the bush and then we'll put you to (unpaid) work, chasing poachers.
That said, John (@bowji john ) is also planning some charitable deal with Altberg for boots, which I am sure he will talk about on here at some point.
Best wishes,
Carl
Our scouts at the coutada have arrested all six poachers, and identified the man controlling them. I won't share any more detail on that while the prosecution is underway.
Obviously, we now have an additional security challenge of ensuring the safety of the arresting scouts.
We work with a number of 'green' organisations, including STS (whom we know through our vet). They are fabulous. Most of the ones we deal with are really pragmatic guys (you have to be in Africa). However, few of them want to 'take us home to mum' for fear of any backlash.
We don't have a charitable arm so the best way to join the fight is to :
1. come and hunt (as @Cumbrian 1 says); or
2. come on one of John's scouting courses in the bush and then we'll put you to (unpaid) work, chasing poachers.
That said, John (@bowji john ) is also planning some charitable deal with Altberg for boots, which I am sure he will talk about on here at some point.
Best wishes,
Carl
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Josh. Will have a think. In the meantime, we could really do with one of these...
Gsd99
Well-Known Member
Let me know if anyone provides one, id quite like one too
They are big bucks now. First limited series special, like f40, Enzo etc. Also the first turbo Ferrari did
S
Gsd99
Well-Known Member
250 gto if i could pick
Wow, this thread puts things into perspective. Well done Carl and team.
