oxonhunter
Well-Known Member
thanks i will send them all a email and they have no reason to deny my fac
UPDATE: TVP FAC/SGC Renewals
- Thread starter I. Farticus
- Start date
Disco_Richy
Well-Known Member
Everyone who's got a renewal/variation/grant thats overdue should be doing this, send to your MP too! Nothing will change if we all just accept that the 'service' we're getting palmed off with is reasonable. Its not, its not even close. A bit of a delay because of this or that is acceptable - 12 months is just a **** take, no reasonable person could say any different.
The fact our cheques are still being cashed upon receipt of application is frankly
The fact our cheques are still being cashed upon receipt of application is frankly
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oxonhunter
Well-Known Member
not had any replies to any of my emails i sent out
oxonhunter
Well-Known Member
It's a joke i still haven't had a reply back to any of my emails 
kennyc
Well-Known Member
have you copied it to your MP, the PCC and CC ?It's a joke i still haven't had a reply back to any of my emails
I. Farticus
Well-Known Member
Ooops... http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/mp-forgets-renew-firearms-licence-appalled-new-issue-time-86188
'Bridgewater and West Somerset MP Ian Liddell-Grainger has had to hand in his guns after neglecting to renew his firearms licence after a reminder.
The MP has accused Avon and Somerset police of ‘utter incompetence’ after learning it will take a minimum of 16 weeks for a new issue although he was sent a courtesy reminder by the force that the certificate for his rifles and shotguns had expired.
“It’s not so serious for me because I only shoot for a hobby. But for gamekeepers or farmers with vermin problems who could easily find themselves in a similar situation 16 weeks is a totally unacceptable delay,” he said.
In the meantime, Mr Liddell-Grainger says he plans to raise the matter with Home Secretary Amber Rudd.'
Be grateful you're not in TVP!
'Bridgewater and West Somerset MP Ian Liddell-Grainger has had to hand in his guns after neglecting to renew his firearms licence after a reminder.
The MP has accused Avon and Somerset police of ‘utter incompetence’ after learning it will take a minimum of 16 weeks for a new issue although he was sent a courtesy reminder by the force that the certificate for his rifles and shotguns had expired.
“It’s not so serious for me because I only shoot for a hobby. But for gamekeepers or farmers with vermin problems who could easily find themselves in a similar situation 16 weeks is a totally unacceptable delay,” he said.
In the meantime, Mr Liddell-Grainger says he plans to raise the matter with Home Secretary Amber Rudd.'
Be grateful you're not in TVP!
Orion
Well-Known Member
So now he knows at last what the 'little people' have been putting up with!
Maybe anyone with a FAC/SGC delay should send him an email in the interests of solidarity!
Disco_Richy
Well-Known Member
16 weeks - lucky him! My application is 19 weeks old in TVP and not a peep from them still - and sure others are on a hell of a lot longer than me.
How long do you think it will take A&SP to sort Mr MP out...?
Disco_Richy
Well-Known Member
Exactly what I was thinking, and will probably end up doing. So should anyone else from any force with issues - the more exposure this gets at MP-level the better; forces can ignore us plebs as much as they like, might be a bit tougher to deal with correspondence from people in power!Maybe anyone with a FAC/SGC delay should send him an email in the interests of solidarity!
AN DU RU FOX
Well-Known Member
ive just emailed him and told him wellcome to our world, Hi i am sorry to hear of your experience with your local firearms licensing dept,we are also dealing with delays and not just ecause the manager is/was under investigation myself and a few others in three different forces GMP. CHESHIRE. AND LANCASHIRE.have all had to put up with terrible services ,,,,,I put on a lot more but you lot are sick of seeing it.
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Druid
Well-Known Member
If everyone on here sent him an Email telling this MP about the huge delays that they were suffering in different areas then there may be a chance of questions being asked in the house.
more use for your typing fingers than putting it on here.
mailto:ianliddellgrainger@hotmail.co.uk
more use for your typing fingers than putting it on here.
mailto:ianliddellgrainger@hotmail.co.uk
Disco_Richy
Well-Known Member
This - anyone who's waited/waiting - ping him an email!
Emailed him.... let's see what good it will do.
I actually got a reply:
" Dear Mr. V,
Thank you for your email about my application for the renewal of my firearms certificate.
As you may appreciated, there is a parliamentary protocol which only allows Members of Parliament to reply to their own constituents, but I am grateful to you for taking the trouble to get in touch after reading of my recent experiences with the renewal of my certificate.
I was interested to read your comments about your own experiences with the Avon and Somerset Firearms Licensing Unit and although it was entirely my own fault that I forgot about the reminder,
what my error has opened up, which is information I might not otherwise have known, is the length of time people are having to wait for simple renewals. Whilst one might expect it to take a little longer for a new application because of the checks that are quite rightly done, it does seem a ridiculously long time for a simple renewal and my concern is not for people like myself who do a bit of shooting as hobby, but for those whose livelihood means having a firearm is essential such as gamekeepers, farmers, even vets and so on. I have a very rural constituency and firearms are an essential part of pest control and humanely dispatching injured stock.
As you say, cost cutting is the excuse used for the delay and there is assumption that people who shoot will not complain as they are in a minority. Should a similar situation arise with having to wait 16 weeks for a passport or driving license, it would simply not be and, indeed as I know from complaints, is not tolerated by the general public.
I am in the process of raising this matter locally and have already spoken to Home Office Ministers about the situation, including talking to the Home Secretary directly about it. I will continue to do to discuss this matter with them but in the meantime, I would also advise that you contact your own Member of Parliament to ask them to make representations directly as well because the more MPs who are raising this matter the more pressure it bring to bear on Government.
Many thanks for taking the trouble to get in touch.
Yours sincerely,
Ian Liddell-Grainger"
" Dear Mr. V,
Thank you for your email about my application for the renewal of my firearms certificate.
As you may appreciated, there is a parliamentary protocol which only allows Members of Parliament to reply to their own constituents, but I am grateful to you for taking the trouble to get in touch after reading of my recent experiences with the renewal of my certificate.
I was interested to read your comments about your own experiences with the Avon and Somerset Firearms Licensing Unit and although it was entirely my own fault that I forgot about the reminder,
what my error has opened up, which is information I might not otherwise have known, is the length of time people are having to wait for simple renewals. Whilst one might expect it to take a little longer for a new application because of the checks that are quite rightly done, it does seem a ridiculously long time for a simple renewal and my concern is not for people like myself who do a bit of shooting as hobby, but for those whose livelihood means having a firearm is essential such as gamekeepers, farmers, even vets and so on. I have a very rural constituency and firearms are an essential part of pest control and humanely dispatching injured stock.
As you say, cost cutting is the excuse used for the delay and there is assumption that people who shoot will not complain as they are in a minority. Should a similar situation arise with having to wait 16 weeks for a passport or driving license, it would simply not be and, indeed as I know from complaints, is not tolerated by the general public.
I am in the process of raising this matter locally and have already spoken to Home Office Ministers about the situation, including talking to the Home Secretary directly about it. I will continue to do to discuss this matter with them but in the meantime, I would also advise that you contact your own Member of Parliament to ask them to make representations directly as well because the more MPs who are raising this matter the more pressure it bring to bear on Government.
Many thanks for taking the trouble to get in touch.
Yours sincerely,
Ian Liddell-Grainger"
AN DU RU FOX
Well-Known Member
he hasn,t answered mine.
and no use sending one to anti bunkum.
and no use sending one to anti bunkum.
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This is what I wrote:
"Dear Sir,
I have read with interest the recent articles in the shooting press regarding your recent surrender of your shotguns due to the lapse in certificate. To begin; I fully sympathise with your situation and wholeheartedly concur with your assessment that 16 weeks wait for a renewal or grant is an entirely unacceptable delay. I therefore wish to add my support to the (hopefully) growing numbers of the shooting community that have contacted you thus far, despite residing in your neighbouring constituency.
However it is readily apparent that this is an issue that is country wide, not just confined to Avon and Somerset. I have only recently begun shooting myself and am in the process of applying for an SGC, also through Avon and Somerset (5 weeks and counting). Due to this I have dedicated a decent amount of time in research on various forums across the breadth of the shooting sports and have noted the following points regarding the licencing process:
Although the above is obviously rather anecdotal evidence it does demonstrate a disturbing trend. Various reports by HM Inspector of Constabulary have noted that good practice is the exception rather than the rule. Unfortunately subsequent FOI requests to this 2014-2015 report have shown that waiting times have got longer, rather than shorter. The current average for SGC grants is 83 days and renewals 67. These numbers should be viewed with some caution as there is little consistency as to how waiting times are reported. That in and of its self is a concern.
While it is acknowledged that the police have had to make cuts in recent years it seems that Firearms licencing departments have been easy targets for such cost saving exercises. This has resulted in the complete shambles that currently exists and is preventing citizens going about their lawful business. As you have acknowledged, while the current situation is barely tolerable for those who shoot as a hobby, for those who require firearms for their livelihood it is completely unacceptable.
The shooting community is relatively small one, however it is one that dedicates vast sums of money to conservation and due to the purchasing laws surrounding firearms regularly supports local business’. Anything that stands in the way of shooting is also hurting these.
Therefore as well as raising the issue with the Home Secretary it would also be appreciated if questions could be raised in the House, in particular in regards to the huge disparity between the processing times between each force and why PCC’s are not being held accountable. "
The above is my understanding of the situation - I appreciate that I may have misinterpreted some things or may not be entirely correct on all aspects of the 5 points I raise.
"Dear Sir,
I have read with interest the recent articles in the shooting press regarding your recent surrender of your shotguns due to the lapse in certificate. To begin; I fully sympathise with your situation and wholeheartedly concur with your assessment that 16 weeks wait for a renewal or grant is an entirely unacceptable delay. I therefore wish to add my support to the (hopefully) growing numbers of the shooting community that have contacted you thus far, despite residing in your neighbouring constituency.
However it is readily apparent that this is an issue that is country wide, not just confined to Avon and Somerset. I have only recently begun shooting myself and am in the process of applying for an SGC, also through Avon and Somerset (5 weeks and counting). Due to this I have dedicated a decent amount of time in research on various forums across the breadth of the shooting sports and have noted the following points regarding the licencing process:
- It is generally agreed that the licensing process is valid and necessary.
- The main issue surrounding the procedure is the disparity in the length of time required by each force to process grants and renewals. You may find it shocking ,as do I, that Avon and Somerset’s performance is about average. Grants and renewals in the Thames Valley region are sadly measured in years (current, anecdotal, average 12 months), whereas in Wiltshire the entire thing can be wrapped up in 4 weeks.
- FEO’s are generally well informed and hard working .
- Notwithstanding the above some forces are in the habit of imposing conditions on FAC’s that overstep both their powers under the act and Home Office guidance.
- Forces, in acknowledgment of their poor performance, are now in the habit of issuing Section 7 (temporary) certificates to ensure all firearms remain legally held. This is however in contravention of Home Office Guidance over their use. There also exists an apparent legal conundrum that Section 7 certificates do not cover the ownership or purchase of the expanding ammunition required to humanely despatch deer. This leave keepers and stalkers in the unenviable position of having their firearms but not having anything to shoot with!
Although the above is obviously rather anecdotal evidence it does demonstrate a disturbing trend. Various reports by HM Inspector of Constabulary have noted that good practice is the exception rather than the rule. Unfortunately subsequent FOI requests to this 2014-2015 report have shown that waiting times have got longer, rather than shorter. The current average for SGC grants is 83 days and renewals 67. These numbers should be viewed with some caution as there is little consistency as to how waiting times are reported. That in and of its self is a concern.
While it is acknowledged that the police have had to make cuts in recent years it seems that Firearms licencing departments have been easy targets for such cost saving exercises. This has resulted in the complete shambles that currently exists and is preventing citizens going about their lawful business. As you have acknowledged, while the current situation is barely tolerable for those who shoot as a hobby, for those who require firearms for their livelihood it is completely unacceptable.
The shooting community is relatively small one, however it is one that dedicates vast sums of money to conservation and due to the purchasing laws surrounding firearms regularly supports local business’. Anything that stands in the way of shooting is also hurting these.
Therefore as well as raising the issue with the Home Secretary it would also be appreciated if questions could be raised in the House, in particular in regards to the huge disparity between the processing times between each force and why PCC’s are not being held accountable. "
The above is my understanding of the situation - I appreciate that I may have misinterpreted some things or may not be entirely correct on all aspects of the 5 points I raise.
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tikka_madras
Well-Known Member
Excellent letter
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