How is it silent if it is supersonic?
Views on challenging a clearance decision.
- Thread starter 3595wilk
- Start date
absolute utter nonsense. What on earth use would be a more powerful bullet be if it broke up faster than std soft lead ? yet impacted at 3 times the velocity and was designed to kill bigger quarry ? Lets take a 222 jacketed softpoint 50 grain as used by the first lot of NZ deer cullers , The greatest majority of nations use 22 cf legally for deer , the indigenous Inuit use many 222 and 22 hornet for large ungulates. Reindeer, Caribou or seal and walrus shooting at close range often in water or on ice. In these circumtances the bullet is at its faster range , break up to harmless dust ? Heck no ! Have you seen the size of a walrus?
Its just the resulting ricochet is silent you will very rarely hear the Zing noise because it is still supersonic it will be covered by the muzzle report if its not its likely further down range . Stand in the Butts at a MCQueen shoot , plenty bullets pass over all you hear is a "crack" after passing though plywood backed targets
if it hits something it breaks up into "fairy dust" is utter rubbish and folks who believe that rubbish should wise up or get revoked ! Energy is the biggest factor in ricochet danger once we remove the nut behind the butt with his fairy dust theory of bullet terminal performance.
The only real times the user will witness a CF ricochet is when 1. something gets hit in the background i know of a horse , a sheep and a very expensive Bull as they guy decided rather than risk his ticket with a claim he would just pay up and the farm took full advantage . 2. you see a rooster tail of spray as the bullet passes over wet grass , I have had this happen personally ! after passing through a roe one early morning .
My feo actually said this about the HMR and i offered to take her outside and create a ricochet in a safe area to show how wrong that is .
Sure thats not much bullet and if you hear it then its subsonic , if its not subsonic though you only know when it hits something solid and definite enough ( as in a backstop) - PLEASE REMEMBER THAT!
You clearly don’t understand that you can buy bullets with different construction for different purposes. Some bullets have a very thin jacket for the sole purpose of allowing them to hold together whilst accelerating down the barrel and in flight. Light Varmint bullets serve this purpose which is the precise reason people say they shouldn’t be used on larger game, because they blow up on the surface without reaching vitals- what’s harder an animal or the ground? Ricochets can of course still happen with these bullets, particularly if shot a a very shallow angle where they effectively skim across the ground.
You also clearly don’t know the difference between subsonic and supersonic.
You don’t seem to know very much at all!
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I am lost for words.
you think different ? you really shouldn't! The zing of a mangled lump of lead from a 22 rf can only be detected by the ear if its reasonably close to the shooter and very unstable and mangled , while traveling slow . those that think HMR won't need to wise up, they do not turn to dust indeed at around 160 they tend not to fail expand on quarry . Deer calibres definitely have that risk but again you won't hear them and yes i have witnessed the ricochet in hmr, small cf and deer calibre rifles .
You still haven't explained how a supersonic ricochet is silent, please can you explain how they defy the laws of physics?
375 H&H just to make sure . . . .
Pete1774
Well-Known Member
If the perm is cleared for Rimfire why not ask for a variation for a 22 WMR ? It gets around their objections to CF. This round can send a 40 gr HP bullet downrange at over 1,800 fps or a 30 gr V-Max at 2,200 fps with around 340 f/p of energy which is plenty for a fox at 100yds. I usually use a 223 for foxes but have shot several with a 17HMR at around 60-70 yds so the WSM would be ideal for you. Also the ammo is cheaper than C/F
See post 10.
WMR is a cracking little round and unlike HMR you can have a semi auto if that floats your boat. It still requires good shot placement but is good for foxes to 100 yards or so. Ammo wise it is but like everything else it’s going up, my preferred CCI load (TNT HP) is now nudging 50p a round!
This round is a bit frangible for fox, I often don’t get exits on rabbits, so on a fox I always give them a second if using the semi.
The 30 gr v-max are also quite soft, so for dedicated fox a heavier HP or SP round is preferable, Winchester do a nice semi jacketed soft point.
I wonder if there is scope for a starker with say 10 years experience to be asked to review the ground and add his view ? If the view is positive then the Police would have to reconsider if not, you have at least the best unbiased input possible - maybe someone on here with an open cert and the years of experience ?
I would however tell them beforehand that you are intending to submit such evidence and why and see if that sharpens their focus ?
I am always willing to take views on this type of comment as - for me, as with the estate rifle principle it allows a strong and capable judgement to be brought to bear.
I would however tell them beforehand that you are intending to submit such evidence and why and see if that sharpens their focus ?
I am always willing to take views on this type of comment as - for me, as with the estate rifle principle it allows a strong and capable judgement to be brought to bear.
I spoke with BASC got some advice and have put in for an open ticket with TVP.
Let's see where that takes us. I have had some people come out and review who hold open tickets and they were of the same opinion as myself, so at least that gave me some personal reassurance I am on the right tracks when assessing land.
Not knocking GlosPol at all BTW.
I've worked under pressure and sometimes easier to take the path of least resistance so can understand what may have happened here.
I'll see how I get on with the request to TVP and take it from there. Thanks all for your input, it is appreciated
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Let's see where that takes us. I have had some people come out and review who hold open tickets and they were of the same opinion as myself, so at least that gave me some personal reassurance I am on the right tracks when assessing land.
Not knocking GlosPol at all BTW.
I've worked under pressure and sometimes easier to take the path of least resistance so can understand what may have happened here.
I'll see how I get on with the request to TVP and take it from there. Thanks all for your input, it is appreciated
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skull hooker
Well-Known Member
I don't know how long you have had your certificate, but TVP will open your FAC after three years. This is a historic throwback to when the FAC's lasted three years and they were done on renewal. I think they also have a policy to open up a certificate prior to three years should you be able to prove you are safe enough. Not sure how they do it though
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