roaring_stag
Well-Known Member
That is odd indeed..., and interesting to hear that you have been advised that Warble is notifiable in deer. Keep us posted.
RS
Warble large in roe?
- Thread starter gixer1
- Start date
RS
Yes. Notifiable in deer, although as you say common in reds up here but not in roe…
Just to update - the vet called me and had me send photos of the carcass pre and post skinning and took some details but I am now ok to dispose of the carcass and no further action needed - she said they like to know where the occurrences are but are more concerned with the cattle variant.
Great service from them and fast response which is good to see!
Regards,
Gixer
Overdosing on anything is generally a bad idea, of course: but this is the first I've heard of OP overdose causing spongiform encephalopathy.
Are there any references?
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Sure, help yourself. The prion concerned requires a copper molecule for normal function, but uptake of this is prevented by OP use, and instead a manganese molecule takes its place; unfortunately, this results not in the re absorption of the prion at the end of its cycle, but rather its uncontrolled replication, eventually resulting in spongiform encephalopathy. OP being a residual poison, it gets dealt with by becoming encapsulated in the fatty tissues of the animal, including he brain and the spinal cord; the EU legislators deemed it acceptable to lower the temperature and time at which such mechanically and chemically recovered material had to be ‘cooked’ at to render 
it safe to be incorporated into bovine foodstuffs (greedy recycling gone wrong) to be fed to the next unsuspecting animal, and thus increasing the overall level of toxin within the body of the animal, to a point where the fun begun, the rest we know of course.
Need to know anything about ivermectin too, or do you still believe in mRNA injections? Even Fauci is back pedalling now.
it safe to be incorporated into bovine foodstuffs (greedy recycling gone wrong) to be fed to the next unsuspecting animal, and thus increasing the overall level of toxin within the body of the animal, to a point where the fun begun, the rest we know of course.Need to know anything about ivermectin too, or do you still believe in mRNA injections? Even Fauci is back pedalling now.
Sure, help yourself. The prion concerned requires a copper molecule for normal function, but uptake of this is prevented by OP use, and instead a manganese molecule takes its place; unfortunately, this results not in the re absorption of the prion at the end of its cycle, but rather its uncontrolled replication, eventually resulting in spongiform encephalopathy. OP being a residual poison, it gets dealt with by becoming encapsulated in the fatty tissues of the animal, including he brain and the spinal cord; the EU legislators deemed it acceptable to lower the temperature and time at which such mechanically and chemically recovered material had to be ‘cooked’ at to render
No red deer on the ground with us either
I have not seen it in a while. Thanks for sharing.
It's not the same warble fly that infects cattle so not notifiable disease in deer in the UK.
Apparently it's been notifiable in deer in Scotland since 2015.
Why? Hypoderma Diana is deer specific it won't infect cattle I know that cases of
Hypoderma Bovis must be notified.
Why? Have I not been notified if this is indeed the case I subscribe to best practice and am supposed to be notified of any changes and updates I have not they don't lists Hypoderma as a notifiable disease.
Why? If notifiable what can they do it's fairly
Widespread in red deer how could the treat a free ranging herd who is going to do the notification many stalker will be unaware while you may see an outward signs on the back more often than not you don't it is only obvious once the animal is skinned estates send their beasts to a AGHE where no doubt it would be come obvious on skinning.
Over the years I must have sent hundreds no thousands of deer to an AGHE many of which would have a warble infestation never
had a carcass condemned because of warble.
Warble does not affect the meat it is perfectly save to eat presumably why I have never heard of a carcass condemned because of warble.
So the meat is safe you can't really medically
treat the animals, you can't reliably identify
Infected animals when alive its widespread in
wild Red deer (personally never seen it in Roe)
So tell me what purpose would notification
serve.
I've absolutely no idea what purpose notification would serve, and although I've seen red deer in Scotland with warbles I'm not aware of anyone bothering to report them. However, the law is the law, and apparently it's notifiable in deer in Scotland (unless my source is incorrect), but, like you, I'm mystified as to why. Perhaps just for monitoring purposes?
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Hmmm. First red I ever shot and brought home to NI (it was a very long time ago) scared the life out of the sainted Mrs FB when she was skinning it and found quite a few of these strange little creatures on the flesh!
I had no idea what they were and phoned the stalker back in Perthshire to seek his advice which was something like this (best read in a thick Perthshire accent):-
“dinnae wurry, them’s warbles an when they pawp yail ken the mate is cooked”.
Needless to say they were removed long before that stage!
I had no idea what they were and phoned the stalker back in Perthshire to seek his advice which was something like this (best read in a thick Perthshire accent):-
“dinnae wurry, them’s warbles an when they pawp yail ken the mate is cooked”.
Needless to say they were removed long before that stage!
It takes quite a lot to put me off my food, but I reckon that comes pretty close.
Yes it is, in Scotland.
Having looked into it a bit further since the start of this thread, I can see why. Apparently, the species of warble that affects cattle can also, at times, infect deer. Therefore, when warble are found in deer it's not a given that they are the deer host specific variety.
It is an offence to fail to notify the presence of warble in deer in Scotland.
The management of wild deer in Scotland: Deer Working Group report
The final report of the Deer Working Group.
www.gov.scot
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Confusion reigns over the status of deer warble ( Hypoderma diana) as a 'notifiable disease' in Scotland.
The principal legislation referred to in the above link is The Warble Fly (Scotland) Order 1982 which refers only to bovine (cattle) animals.
It seems this legislation remains in place after 2015 in Scotland: when the comparable legislation in England & Wales was revoked.
Thinking logically:
If the warble species (H bovis and H lineatum) which affect cattle commonly infected red deer and produced viable (H.b /H.l) warble flies then the
hill cattle in the Highland red deer range would be persistently re-infected. As it is, no cases of H.b or H.l have been reported in the UK since 1990.
Back in the 1960's (in days before in-skin exports) all our west-Highlands hinds were skinned prior to venison dealer collection - 100% of all carcases had warbles.
Infestation was worst in young animals 1-2yrs old and in geriatric animals: there appears to be some 'resistance' to infestation in fully fit/mature red deer.
In the west-Highlands what is visible depends on when the deer are culled and skinned: few visible warbles visible before Christmas and progressively more an bigger warble 'grubs'
through Jan/Feb etc. As a result, Highland stalkers generally stock up their freezers with venison before Christmas!!!
In November/December shot sika hinds from the west Highlands, I have seen (on skinning) fibrous tags between the skin along the backline and underlying muscles
which suggested prior infestation with H diana. Not surprising as it is a Cervid species.
I've never seen H diana in Highland roe but then I've never skinned a Highland roe in Jan/Feb/March.
I have seen cross-over deer warble infestation in (thin-skinned) non-native horses introduced to the Highlands - never in Highland ponies.
The principal legislation referred to in the above link is The Warble Fly (Scotland) Order 1982 which refers only to bovine (cattle) animals.
It seems this legislation remains in place after 2015 in Scotland: when the comparable legislation in England & Wales was revoked.
Thinking logically:
If the warble species (H bovis and H lineatum) which affect cattle commonly infected red deer and produced viable (H.b /H.l) warble flies then the
hill cattle in the Highland red deer range would be persistently re-infected. As it is, no cases of H.b or H.l have been reported in the UK since 1990.
Back in the 1960's (in days before in-skin exports) all our west-Highlands hinds were skinned prior to venison dealer collection - 100% of all carcases had warbles.
Infestation was worst in young animals 1-2yrs old and in geriatric animals: there appears to be some 'resistance' to infestation in fully fit/mature red deer.
In the west-Highlands what is visible depends on when the deer are culled and skinned: few visible warbles visible before Christmas and progressively more an bigger warble 'grubs'
through Jan/Feb etc. As a result, Highland stalkers generally stock up their freezers with venison before Christmas!!!
In November/December shot sika hinds from the west Highlands, I have seen (on skinning) fibrous tags between the skin along the backline and underlying muscles
which suggested prior infestation with H diana. Not surprising as it is a Cervid species.
I've never seen H diana in Highland roe but then I've never skinned a Highland roe in Jan/Feb/March.
I have seen cross-over deer warble infestation in (thin-skinned) non-native horses introduced to the Highlands - never in Highland ponies.
There lies the problem - it’s still on the scotgov website as notifiable! It says “animal” not just cattle on the webpage age…
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davy crocket
Active Member
Never saw it on roe but plenty on reds.They seem to be worse on younger animals probably because they don’t know what they are
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