What are you?
- Thread starter Monkey Spanker
- Start date
scrumbag
Well-Known Member
How about the term 'deer enthusiasts'? That's what I am, in some ways I manage deer, in some ways I simply shoot them, I appreciate trophies but rarely shoot any myself, I enjoy photographing deer and talking about them including teaching others about them. I couldn't care less if I never shoot another deer in my life but I expect that I will always be a deer enthusiast. Glyn.
I. Farticus
Well-Known Member
At the moment, I'm neither. Being a recreational stalker I'm only looking to put something in the freezer.
However (caveat alert) given the Gold vs Silver head question... I'd drop the Gold. Will taste the same, but I'd have a Gold trophy.
Ask me again in 12m time, as I don't know where this stalking malarkey will lead me and I might give a different answer
However (caveat alert) given the Gold vs Silver head question... I'd drop the Gold. Will taste the same, but I'd have a Gold trophy.
Ask me again in 12m time, as I don't know where this stalking malarkey will lead me and I might give a different answer
Not putting 'recreational stalker' as an option is a bit perverse.
Sure, many of us (recreational stalkers) would like a nice head if given a chance, but don't go out of our way to target them. I would guess a lot of us are just delighted to have the chance to be out once ot twice a month, and doubly pleased to get a deer once every 3-4 outings. In no way are we 'managers', despite fond delusions to the contrary. Most of us live in fear that our modest (and frequently free) permissions on odd corners of friend's farms will sooner of later be snapped up by more aquisitive (and more commercially minded) 'managers' or trophy hunters.
The options are rather revealing about the possible prejudices/misunderstandings held by the more professional end of the deer stalking world...
Sure, many of us (recreational stalkers) would like a nice head if given a chance, but don't go out of our way to target them. I would guess a lot of us are just delighted to have the chance to be out once ot twice a month, and doubly pleased to get a deer once every 3-4 outings. In no way are we 'managers', despite fond delusions to the contrary. Most of us live in fear that our modest (and frequently free) permissions on odd corners of friend's farms will sooner of later be snapped up by more aquisitive (and more commercially minded) 'managers' or trophy hunters.
The options are rather revealing about the possible prejudices/misunderstandings held by the more professional end of the deer stalking world...
bambislayer
Well-Known Member
I suppose there are "trophy" hunters and "TROPHY" hunters.
A trophy can be a momento of the day or it can be a obsession to have the biggest antlers in the world!
It's a very personal thing. I can only say that I have had 0nly 3 or 4 real TROPHY hunting clients. I must admit that I didn't take to any of them. Of course anyone will raise a smile after shooting a gold medal but I've seen just as big smiles come from people shooting a scabby old hind.
The real TROPHY hunter tends to be completely obsessive and disinterested in anything other than the CIC score.
I have only kept one head out of all the deer I've shot, a bronze medal Hill Stag , I shot in Argyll. It's in the loft!! I have a beaver skin and scull from Norway, I keep meaning to have sporrans made
.
So no, I don't see my self as a trophy hunter and as a manager, I've never been tempted to shoot big heads for trophies although if on a restock or a reduction cull, I wouldn't think twice. Not because of the trophy but because it's a set of teeth.
From experience, it is not culling policies that produce big heads but the ground. Obviously hitting deer so hard that they will struggle to get over 4yrs old wont help the CIC scores but the genetics and quality will still be there, it'll just not reach it's full potential on the medal sheet.
A trophy can be a momento of the day or it can be a obsession to have the biggest antlers in the world!
It's a very personal thing. I can only say that I have had 0nly 3 or 4 real TROPHY hunting clients. I must admit that I didn't take to any of them. Of course anyone will raise a smile after shooting a gold medal but I've seen just as big smiles come from people shooting a scabby old hind.
The real TROPHY hunter tends to be completely obsessive and disinterested in anything other than the CIC score.
I have only kept one head out of all the deer I've shot, a bronze medal Hill Stag , I shot in Argyll. It's in the loft!! I have a beaver skin and scull from Norway, I keep meaning to have sporrans made
. So no, I don't see my self as a trophy hunter and as a manager, I've never been tempted to shoot big heads for trophies although if on a restock or a reduction cull, I wouldn't think twice. Not because of the trophy but because it's a set of teeth.
From experience, it is not culling policies that produce big heads but the ground. Obviously hitting deer so hard that they will struggle to get over 4yrs old wont help the CIC scores but the genetics and quality will still be there, it'll just not reach it's full potential on the medal sheet.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
A fair point. I'm not interested in the dimensions of a set of antlers, or the size of a deer. In fact, I'd rather shoot a young, smallish deer as it will be better eating. On the other hand, no matter how laughable they are, the antlers from the first male deer I shoot are going up on the wall, because it will be the first and will be very meaningful to me personally. Admittedly, this may be the wall of the cupboard under the stairs as my wife takes a different view.
I've also just revealed that I can also claim to be "neither" as I've yet to shoot any deer whatsoever. Still, roll on February.
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
If you have a large enough area to have a set cull plan then of course you should manage the deer across the whole age group. This is generally about a 60:20:20 split (or thereabouts depending upon species, location and other variables!). Therefore some mature and old animals are going to feature on the cull plan. It might be the case that you don't have enough poorer animals within this age bracket to complete the cull and have to take the odd medal head to make up the numbers. I don't think that would put you in what I would call the dedicated 'trophy hunter' bracket though as you are managing deer within a cull plan. However, I strongly suspect that there are some people which abuse this privelage to get something a little better than they perhaps should have to go on the wall???!!! A trophy head doesn't necessarily make it the best animal either!
MS
I see myself as a deer manager 95% of the time, but I will not hesitate to reward myself with a nice trophy now and again, as long as it's not excessive. ideally, the big trophies come for deer 'going back' so it's a best of both worlds situation.
I try my hardest to create a good healthy population, but I'm not a saint, so will take a trophy now and again
I try my hardest to create a good healthy population, but I'm not a saint, so will take a trophy now and again
Always causing trouble!
. Trophy animals should be part of a balanced cull plan, 60/20/20 so taking good beasts should be within those figures. Personally I don't do the trophy bit but my dogs love to eat them!
I would sooner keep a good malform or something different. There are a lot of stalkers out there who are on strict instructions to shoot everything, If its brown its down if its red its dead! If they don't do it someone else will. Bit of a hard choice, stick up for your morals and principles or loose the stalking!!
. Trophy animals should be part of a balanced cull plan, 60/20/20 so taking good beasts should be within those figures. Personally I don't do the trophy bit but my dogs love to eat them! I would sooner keep a good malform or something different. There are a lot of stalkers out there who are on strict instructions to shoot everything, If its brown its down if its red its dead! If they don't do it someone else will. Bit of a hard choice, stick up for your morals and principles or loose the stalking!!
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
There was good reason for me to keep the options as I did mate!
My intention with this thread was to get people to think about which side of the line best suited their activities, rather than just give the easy 'Recreational stalker' sat on the fence right in the middle option. I believe that it is important that all people that shoot deer realise the consequences of their actions within the bigger picture, no matter what scale they do it on or what area they cover. (A form of general area communication and collaboration if you like!?)
The exact terminology of what we each like to call ourselves is irrelevant really, but we should all be working towards a common aim or goal.
We all have an effect on the general overall deer population and its health in the future. Please spare this a thought when you decide which ones to cull and which ones are best left for the future.
I hope that this thread will get some people to reflect upon their actions and maybe consider whether they could do better to promote a healthy deer population in balance with its environment.
If so.......then the aim of my thread has been achieved!
MS
So what information is gained from 'neither'?
The majority of recreational stalkers will have negligible impacts on deer populations in comparison to other sources of mortality - at least for the smaller species (roe, muntjac). But to imply that we don't think about the consequences of our actions, or make considered choices about what to shoot or leave, is a bit patronising.
The majority of recreational stalkers will have negligible impacts on deer populations in comparison to other sources of mortality - at least for the smaller species (roe, muntjac). But to imply that we don't think about the consequences of our actions, or make considered choices about what to shoot or leave, is a bit patronising.
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
No information is gained at all, and neither was it meant to be!
I think you'll find that if you add up all the deer culled by recreational stalkers it will be a considerable amount! As individuals, it might appear negligible, but as a collective it will be substantial! I am in no way implying that all recreational stalkers don't consider the consequences of their actions, but how many of them work to a cull plan for instance? Either local or general area? Not many I suspect! Why not try talking to a nieghbouring stalker and discuss what you think would benefit the local population of deer. My post was in no way meant to be patronising and was not aimed at recreational stalkers anyway! If anything, my post was aimed at potential trophy hunters who may or may not realise the consequences of their actions.
MS
Paul at Fechan
Well-Known Member
mainly control, little bit of management on farms
Si
Well-Known Member
Purely recreational... I suppose that would put me in the deer management category, but it's someone else's management plan and on someone else's ground.
I do have some ground of my own but it's only a small area and I don't get there often enough to call it management.
Tomorrow I will be (indirectly) assisting the Duke of Devonshire with his management plan....
I do have some ground of my own but it's only a small area and I don't get there often enough to call it management.
Tomorrow I will be (indirectly) assisting the Duke of Devonshire with his management plan....
Ah! That makes sense.
I'm in the unenviable position of having a very aggressive syndicate which controls virtually all the land neighbouring my main permission. They appear to shoot everything they can, and have tried to intimidate me on several occasions - so I understand what you mean about the wider consequences of stalking, and the need for more collaboration and communication. I suppose I'm just a tad touchy becauses these as*holes claim to be 'managers', and have several times gone to the farmer where I have permission and attempted to convince him that my activities are irrelevant at best and actively damaging at worst.
Fortunately, he can't stand them either and has told them where to go.
It does make the stalking on large parts of this farm quite challenging, since the deer are extremely wary. And I've picked shot out of several carcasses, which really makes me wonder about what's going on next door.
I'm in the unenviable position of having a very aggressive syndicate which controls virtually all the land neighbouring my main permission. They appear to shoot everything they can, and have tried to intimidate me on several occasions - so I understand what you mean about the wider consequences of stalking, and the need for more collaboration and communication. I suppose I'm just a tad touchy becauses these as*holes claim to be 'managers', and have several times gone to the farmer where I have permission and attempted to convince him that my activities are irrelevant at best and actively damaging at worst.
Fortunately, he can't stand them either and has told them where to go.
It does make the stalking on large parts of this farm quite challenging, since the deer are extremely wary. And I've picked shot out of several carcasses, which really makes me wonder about what's going on next door.
firsttimer
Well-Known Member
There was good reason for me to keep the options as I did mate!
My intention with this thread was to get people to think about which side of the line best suited their activities, rather than just give the easy 'Recreational stalker' sat on the fence right in the middle option. I believe that it is important that all people that shoot deer realise the consequences of their actions within the bigger picture, no matter what scale they do it on or what area they cover. (A form of general area communication and collaboration if you like!?)
The exact terminology of what we each like to call ourselves is irrelevant really, but we should all be working towards a common aim or goal.
We all have an effect on the general overall deer population and its health in the future. Please spare this a thought when you decide which ones to cull and which ones are best left for the future.
I hope that this thread will get some people to reflect upon their actions and maybe consider whether they could do better to promote a healthy deer population in balance with its environment.
If so.......then the aim of my thread has been achieved!
MS
Perhaps the attached link might provide some useful insight into the current thread, albeit, only appplicable in Scotland.
http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/B949709.pdf
PointBlank
Well-Known Member
I glanced through it but nothing was said about leaving a buck/stag until it makes a good ornament!
It seems more concerned what will happen (legally)if you don't keep on top of your population
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