What muzzle thread for a Tikka?

[Whitebeard]

Actually it's very easy to say that the Metrics are sloppy because then are when compared to the fit of Imperial threads. A company I used to work for had the contract to make and supply all the special bolts for the Bugatti owners club. They have all sorts of weird sizes. One could make the bolt to the ring and gap gauge as well as checking with O-Vee wires and then make the nut so suit using the gauge and when you put the nut on the bolt it wobbled about. Very sloppy. Compared that to say a 5/16 UNF or 4 BA thread and they fit together, that is nut and bolt of the same size , very nicely.

Like most things that the EU has to do with it's a con. We were told that the Metric system was easier and better. One didn't need all these special threads .......... that the Imperial systems had......................... Bull hicky. That's why we have all these speacial Non Standard threads for cars etc because the std ones are no damned good.

They have been forcing it upon us by any under hand means they can because lots of people were not interested in changing. One thing they are doing is making it more difficult for ordinary people to get imperial fastenings. However that's another tale.

Me i'll stick with Imperial threads and if I make something it will have imperial threads the SI lot can go take a very long walk off a short pier.

Brithunter, the standard "M" series metric thread does have a more generous tolerence then the equivalent imperial or unified thread but you cannot group all metric threads under the same "sloppy fit" banner.
There are also fine, extra fine and super fine series of metric threads which are governed by 5 ISO fit standards and just like any imperial or unified thread, they can be cut to very fine tolereneces.

I am not surprised that you had all sorts of sizes of threads for the bugatti owners as the french had there own fit standards, ISO standardization of metric threads happened some years after bugatti ceased production.
As for the modern motor industry out side of the USA it exclusively metric now my friend, the only reason why unified is hanging on in the states is because of the massive domestic market,, if more US made cars were exportd world wide they would all have changed to metric threads years ago.

You cant possibly say that the metric system has been forced upon us it was already the excepted standard in general engineering when i did my apprenticeship back in the late 1970s, also, remember decimalisation of our currency? long time before the formation of the EU or are you hankering for the old pounds shillings and pence?

Ian.

 

[Blunderbuss]

Suggest you give Teagues a call based at Tortworth, just down the M5 from you will do an excellent job and sort out re proof.

You might find SRS a ittle difficult to get hold of and may have a long turn around time, thats why I had mine done by Nigel.

D

Yep I'd thought of Teagues, handy enough for me.

Blunderbuss, I spoke to Steve Bowers a little while ago about cutting a thread, turn round time was not great but he will talk the price up. he would have done just a cut but then it can be a while to get rifle back unless you pay for 4 hours of his time to run up to Birmingham to get the proof done. if you dont have anyone to cut for you yet then shout Neil and ask about Mike Norris. I used Alistair but never again as the thread was as bad as the old one, very ruff.

Cheers Phil, I saw the cut Alistair did on your Tikka - I'd have been annoyed by that. As Mike said - looks like it had been done with a tap and die set not a lathe It might be on hold for a while any how. I might have accidentally bought another rifle with the money earmarked for a mod & cut

 

[trouble]

Blunderbuss, I spoke to Steve Bowers a little while ago about cutting a thread, turn round time was not great but he will talk the price up. he would have done just a cut but then it can be a while to get rifle back unless you pay for 4 hours of his time to run up to Birmingham to get the proof done. if you dont have anyone to cut for you yet then shout Neil and ask about Mike Norris. I used Alistair but never again as the thread was as bad as the old one, very ruff.

yeah but look on the bright side , it was quicker and cheaper than Steve . Or was it

 

[Brithunter]

Brithunter, the standard "M" series metric thread does have a more generous tolerence then the equivalent imperial or unified thread but you cannot group all metric threads under the same "sloppy fit" banner.
There are also fine, extra fine and super fine series of metric threads which are governed by 5 ISO fit standards and just like any imperial or unified thread, they can be cut to very fine tolereneces.

I am not surprised that you had all sorts of sizes of threads for the bugatti owners as the french had there own fit standards, ISO standardization of metric threads happened some years after bugatti ceased production.
As for the modern motor industry out side of the USA it exclusively metric now my friend, the only reason why unified is hanging on in the states is because of the massive domestic market,, if more US made cars were exportd world wide they would all have changed to metric threads years ago.

You cant possibly say that the metric system has been forced upon us it was already the excepted standard in general engineering when i did my apprenticeship back in the late 1970s, also, remember decimalisation of our currency? long time before the formation of the EU or are you hankering for the old pounds shillings and pence?

Ian.

Actuallt Pounds Shillings and pence would cut inflation. Decimalisation was a con. Instead of something going u a Farthing or happeny it went up 1/2 pence of one pence which made things go up by a huge amount. 1NP equalled nearly 3d so inflaction jumped but a huge 4-8 times what it was in one foul swoop.

Look how things went up with the adoption of the Euro in the zone.

As for metric threads being adopted. Well it was FORCED upon industry through the ISO scheme. I didn't work in metrics until I went to work at Edwards High vacuum and even they used BSP fittings on the Vaccum pumps until they went over tot eh ISO flange clamps which had no threads at all, part of BOC, Monotype and Warsop Power Tools still using Imperial threads. Warsop did do a few metrics on the Vizo bodies butt hat was a European design.. Some old truck drivers might recall the Vizo pumps for cold starts.

Yes SI is a new idea really dating if I recall right for about 1920 or so but it was slow to be adopted and all the European industrial powers had their own ideas. Strange to recall that Mauser used metric diameters but a Whitworth form of thread.

As for the EU no one asked nor told us about a European super state. We joined a common market and that deal old French bastarwd blocked out entry for many years.. then we had to pay through the nose to belong. Unlike those who join the EU cap in hand now.

 

[Brithunter]

Once again a thread cut on the muzzle of a rifle does not require proofing. There is nothing in law which say it does and there have been at least two court cases in which the CPS and proof house have lost trying to force their views onto the shooting fraternity.

 

[Cottontail killer]

Everyone seems bother about the thickness left around the bore but no one seems bothered with having enough shoulder for the Moderator to butt up against. Some how I find this rather strange. The shoulder provides support and strength when the moderator is screwed up tight against it.

Given a choice I will always use a fractional thread rather than metric. The tolerances on the metrics are just too sloppy for my liking. Threads like the UNF just fit much better when both threads are made to the correct gauges. Sadly it seems very few actually use ant gauges when cutting threads on muzzles as they seem to use the moderator as a gauge......................... very poor practice IMHO. How do they check the Moderators thread was cut correctly?

What a load of old s**te metric or imperial. It all comes down to the machinist

 

[Blunderbuss]

Being in the process of restoring a British motorcycle, I'm a little dubious about the validity of the various thread forms British manufacturing used to think were sensible. To date I have encountered UNC, UNF, BSP, BA, Whitworth and 2 or 3 others I can't even remember the names of on one 1970 manufactured motorcycle. There may well have been some sound engineering principles that led to the selection of each one, but from every other perspective it is a reet pain in the rear! I'm sure some standardisation would have made life a hell of a lot easier for mechanics, suppliers and users, without compromising <cough> quality.