What's the heaviest bullet any of you have put in a .308?

[Southern]

You can stabilize the 208 Amax because the bearing surface is short, and it has low friction, and you can push it fast enough ( 2,500 fps or more ).

The Sierra 190 GK will expand well at 1,500 FPS, which is a long way out there. It will definitely open on a a big deer at 200 or 250 yards.

There are an awful lot of good 180-gr RN .308 bullets, and easy to get shooting well. And, you can buy all of them in some factory loading and try them to see, before buying and box of 100.

 

[tackb]

Ha ha, says the man who said a 175 match king won't stabilise in a 1-11" at subsonic velocities. .

Evening Russ

(The subs were still flying true at 300yds wednesday, hell of a drop, but they all (10) went through the target pointy end first and straight, and reasonably close together to boot, but they are very close to mach1, and had one cracker)

Pete

well they bloomin wouldn't in my TRG21 ! Matey mate me old mate !

We've had informal sub shoots out to 300 and it's quite surprising just how well they shoot isn't it !

I'd only just got back from Orion last night , we'd been nocking over steel deer out to 750m , great fun and very satisfying in wind and rain with your first round !

 

[Brithunter]

Hi Brithunter,



"Soft cast" I understand, "paper patched" I do not. Can you explain what this means?



Agreed. I plan to buy a bigger .30 calibre at some point in the future, but as noted above, it's not practical. Also, the success or failure of this experiment won't affect any hunting in the immediate future, so if I find that the bullet doesn't expand in, for example, ballistic gelatin, I can just not use the load and discard it.



Just out of interest, what barrel length did you use for these? I've read that if you're going to push such heavy bullets at decent speeds, you need a long barrel (maybe more than 24") to get the best out of them...

Thanks,

Adam.

Sorry have not bee online here as was busy.

Paper Patched is simply the bullet it wrapped in a paper jacket. Early metal jacketed bullets were known as Metal Patched. The metal could be applied by machine but Paper patches were applied by hand even commercially.

The paper stops the soft lead rubbing on the bore during it's travel down the bore after firing but it does not constrict the lead from expanding. The paper also allows normal velocities and not the usually lower ones associated with cast lead bullets.

Without going into detail there are several fine sites that cover paper patching. Cast Boolits is one such site. A chap named Paul Mathews wrote a couple of very interesting and informative books on this the one to read is:-

The Paper Jacket.

Hope the explains a lit

 

[neutron619]

Thanks Brithunter - much appreciated. I'll have a read and come back to you via PM if I have more questions.

 

[Muir]

I shoot a 196 grain cast bullet through my Model 98 Sporter with the Israeli-contract FN 308 barrel. It actually has a 'ball-seat' throat in this barrel but I run the bullet nose down into a 3-degree (included angle) taper die before loading. The bullet snugs against the rifling with the base of the bullet seated to the base of the neck. Heat treated, these bullets can be fired at over 40K pressure and they are not only accurate, but deadly on deer. At 2400 fps my groups run in the half MOA class and I've never had to fire a second round into a deer hit with this load.

It's fun to paper patch soft bullets but you're limited in application. Develop a really accurate load using heat treated cast bullets and you've got a lot more potential.~Muir

 

[Brithunter]

I shoot a 196 grain cast bullet through my Model 98 Sporter with the Israeli-contract FN 308 barrel. It actually has a 'ball-seat' throat in this barrel but I run the bullet nose down into a 3-degree (included angle) taper die before loading. The bullet snugs against the rifling with the base of the bullet seated to the base of the neck. Heat treated, these bullets can be fired at over 40K pressure and they are not only accurate, but deadly on deer. At 2400 fps my groups run in the half MOA class and I've never had to fire a second round into a deer hit with this load.

It's fun to paper patch soft bullets but you're limited in application. Develop a really accurate load using heat treated cast bullets and you've got a lot more potential.~Muir

Ahhh Muir as you know I was just starting to experiment with then when the muck hit the fan.... Perhaps one day will be able to get back to it.

 

[Penyard]

I shoot the 200gr Lapua fmj subsonic bullets in my .308 at sub sonic velocity really quite accurate but my barrel has a polygonal rifling and a 1:8 twist as it was designed/built to do this and still shoot supersonic hunting loads which it does tidy.

I appreciate that this is a slight deviation from the OP but 200gr is as heavy as I go subsonic and 180gr supersonic. I know you are trying to go slow and heavy and with boar in mind, my .308 gets used a lot for boar from high seat or stalked and .165gr or 180gr are just fine.

Let us know how you get on and have fun.

 

[Muir]

Ahhh Muir as you know I was just starting to experiment with then when the muck hit the fan.... Perhaps one day will be able to get back to it.

I hope you do.
I still have the prints for the 3-degree taper die that fits in the Lyman/RCBS lubrisizer. Happy to pass it on to you. Accuracy at high velocity is on par with jacketed in many loads.~Muir

 

[Southern]

I know you are trying to go slow and heavy and with boar in mind, my .308 gets used a lot for boar from high seat or stalked and .165gr or 180gr are just fine.

Exactly! Before experimenting with any new load based on armchair thinking, go shoot some big game ( boar here ) with a proven baseline, like the Remington ammunition, the .308 Win 180 gr Core Lokt RN. If you find you want less opening and a tougher bullet, then load some Speer Grand Slam 180-gr RN.

But since your friend's .45-70 set you off on this quest, I think you need something like a .444 Marlin to scratch this itch.

 

[Muir]

No! Go straight to 45-70. It's where all heavy bullet brush whackers gravitate to eventually.~Muir

PS: Is Marlin still making the .444 with that 1-36" twist?? I built myself a 1-18" and it was a real pleasure with 400 grain bullets.

PPS: Answered my own question! Current twist is 1-20.

PPPS: My son has a very accurate 26" octagonal barrel "Cowboy" 1895 45-70 sitting in my safe. Why am I suddenly wanting to 'air it out"?? Is it the 250 330 grain HP's I cast for it????

 

[Brithunter]

Southern,

What you missing here is that unlike you we have a very limited choice of ammunition. Not many places will stock ANY round nosed ammunition let alone component bullets. Likewise getting to shoot big game is not exactly wander out and find one then shoot it. For one thing there is NO public land hunting ............................. period!

Then we come into the problem of holding limits on ammunition and expanding bullets. Using cast bullets gets around this as they are not classed as expanding.

 

[Muir]

Then we come into the problem of holding limits on ammunition and expanding bullets. Using cast bullets gets around this as they are not classed as expanding.

Which is why I am always amazed that there are so few cast bullet shooters in the UK.~Muir

 

[Brithunter]

Which is why I am always amazed that there are so few cast bullet shooters in the UK.~Muir

I believe part of the problem is supply of stuff. Casting stuff is not easy to get especially moulds and sizing dies and the cost is rather high. Then I am afraid a lot of shooters are just playing at it .......................................... note how many rely upon factory ammunition on these very forums.

Then add the issue of not buying bullets the Police than say your not using any ammunition so not shooting so don't need the guns. Without the paper trail to follow the Police are lost and their warped thinking on shooting and shooters will never allow them to think reasonably about this. If your making your own bullets it's out of their control and they don't like that one little bit.

 

[neutron619]

Just to say in reply to all of the above, I'm keen on casting but not on liquid metal and Lead fumes, so I'll save that for a few years until my brain is already basically addled by age and the stress of children. If I had my way, I'd do as Muir suggested and gravitate (rush headlong) towards a .45-70 and probably one of the .300 magnums as well. This wouldn't necessarily result in any more deer in the freezer - quantity-wise, probably less given the big holes both of those will make - but between them, they'd scratch the "big fat bullet" itch and the "running the whole range of bullets through a .30" itch which between them turned into this reloading project...

Oh, and cast bullets - agreed - and no-one mentioned the cost incentive either - I doubt they're more than half the price of the equivalent jacketed bullets, even bought sized, lubed and checked. Irritatingly, I've got about 300 of the things I can't use, so if anyone wants some .315" (yeah -'cause those will fit down a .308 ) sized bullets for their Lee-Enfield or other .303, let me know.

 

[The tramp]

You might be pleasantly surprised at how little meat damage a big heavy slow cast bullet does. I see less damage when using my 444 than the 243, and they drop as quick, if not quicker.

 

[neutron619]

Aye - I've been unclear again - sorry for that. When I said bigger holes, I meant the .300 of whatever flavour. The idea that the .45-70 would minimise meat damage was, of course, the inspiration for this whole "put a 200gr pill in a .308" experiment upon which I'm about to embark...

In future I'll try not to put two ideas in the same sentence and then refer to one of them in non-specific fashion!

 

[Muir]

Just to say in reply to all of the above, I'm keen on casting but not on liquid metal and Lead fumes, so I'll save that for a few years until my brain is already basically addled by age and the stress of children. If I had my way, I'd do as Muir suggested and gravitate (rush headlong) towards a .45-70 and probably one of the .300 magnums as well. This wouldn't necessarily result in any more deer in the freezer - quantity-wise, probably less given the big holes both of those will make - but between them, they'd scratch the "big fat bullet" itch and the "running the whole range of bullets through a .30" itch which between them turned into this reloading project...

Oh, and cast bullets - agreed - and no-one mentioned the cost incentive either - I doubt they're more than half the price of the equivalent jacketed bullets, even bought sized, lubed and checked. Irritatingly, I've got about 300 of the things I can't use, so if anyone wants some .315" (yeah -'cause those will fit down a .308 ) sized bullets for their Lee-Enfield or other .303, let me know.

Is that why I am the way I am?? I've been casting for 30 years or better.

It's perfectly safe provided you do it in a well ventilated area, don't handle food after casting without washing up first, and don't drop that hot metal on yourself. I run two molds and can cast about 100 bullets an hour at a leisurely pace. IT is a very gratifying experience to kill game with a handload utilizing a bullet you've made.~Muir

 

[Brithunter]

Oh, and cast bullets - agreed - and no-one mentioned the cost incentive either - I doubt they're more than half the price of the equivalent jacketed bullets, even bought sized, lubed and checked. Irritatingly, I've got about 300 of the things I can't use, so if anyone wants some .315" (yeah -'cause those will fit down a .308 ) sized bullets for their Lee-Enfield or other .303, let me know.

PM sent regards bullets.

 

[neutron619]

PM replied to - aforementioned bullets provisionally have a new home.

 

[Brithunter]

PM replied to - aforementioned bullets provisionally have a new home.

Thank you am checking the calender.