When Buffalo hunt does not go to plan...

zambezi

Well-Known Member
Just saw this on YT. I have no idea of persons in the clip nor their well-being at this time. I must assume that the person who posted the video had the blessing of those involved. It is a salutory reminder that Buffalo can and do fight back.

 

johngryphon

Well-Known Member
geezus the shot into him while the bloke was in front of the bull was fortunate....that it didnt pass through.

The bloke in the ute was safe eh!
 

Farmer_J

Well-Known Member
Stumbled across this on FB, they were being accused of being under gunned.

“I just really want to set the record straight so everyone has the right information.
I personally know the PH and Outfitter. He has 25 years of experience.
Just to state the facts correctly.. the PH was carrying a 375 & a farm manager was carrying a 30-06 (not for backup, but incase the client had to shoot him on 200 yards plus) - we have to make SURE of the facts before sharing a post with WRONG information. It was NOT a .243. The buffalo was shot with a crossbow the previous night (not a compound bow). And was left for 14 hours overnight before tracking was started.
The buffalo went into the thicket, he was wounded and he charged, the point is that these are wild animals and it’s a lesson to learn about how careful we should be. Most experienced PH’s and outfitters in south africa will tell you that at one point or another you will have a Buffalo charge. The PH stayed calm and shot the Buffalo with the .375 in the spine which ultimately diffused the situation.
For me personally I am very very glad that no one is seriously injured and see it as a valuable lesson learned.”
 

Tim.243

Well-Known Member
Stumbled across this on FB, they were being accused of being under gunned.

“I just really want to set the record straight so everyone has the right information.
I personally know the PH and Outfitter. He has 25 years of experience.
Just to state the facts correctly.. the PH was carrying a 375 & a farm manager was carrying a 30-06 (not for backup, but incase the client had to shoot him on 200 yards plus) - we have to make SURE of the facts before sharing a post with WRONG information. It was NOT a .243. The buffalo was shot with a crossbow the previous night (not a compound bow). And was left for 14 hours overnight before tracking was started.
The buffalo went into the thicket, he was wounded and he charged, the point is that these are wild animals and it’s a lesson to learn about how careful we should be. Most experienced PH’s and outfitters in south africa will tell you that at one point or another you will have a Buffalo charge. The PH stayed calm and shot the Buffalo with the .375 in the spine which ultimately diffused the situation.
For me personally I am very very glad that no one is seriously injured and see it as a valuable lesson learned.”

It went wrong when the PH agreed to take the client out with a cross bow............a .375 and .3006 are not backed up by a cross bow.

I have listened to an audio transcript describing the event.

Tim.243
 

the_greenman

Well-Known Member
The subject of big game hunting is almost as emotive as Badger culling and fox hunting. If the outfitters believe shooting a buffalo with a crossbow is acceptable then you can see why the public perception is turning against them in floods.
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Easy for us all to judge after the fact. However, like @levigsp , I struggle to understand what a .30-06 was doing on a follow-up.

Kind regards,

Carl
In Africa Firearms are hard to obtain, ammo often more so. Many many buffalo are shot and have been shot wirh a 30-06 or 303. The PH was using a 375 h&h. I would carry a 30-06 if nothing else were available. Also probably better for a longer shot if scoped accordingly.

Big game hunting will result in animals getting grumpy sooner or later.
 

CarlW

Well-Known Member
In Africa Firearms are hard to obtain, ammo often more so. Many many buffalo are shot and have been shot wirh a 30-06 or 303. The PH was using a 375 h&h. I would carry a 30-06 if nothing else were available. Also probably better for a longer shot if scoped accordingly.

Big game hunting will result in animals getting grumpy sooner or later.
We currently have two .375s, a .416, a .458 and a .308 sitting in our safe. That is in a remote African country; never mind SA. It is not difficult for hunters to ensure they have the right guns around.

A .30-06 will kill a buffalo at-rest no problem. However, on a follow-up, you end up pointing at the big, crazy, black thing; not aiming. This is where the larger calibres succeed. It is also why, in the majority of African countries, .375 is the legal minimum.

As for long range, a .375 has pretty much the same trajectory as a .30-06.

As I said, easy for us all to judge (and it turned out OK), but let's not encourage the idea that anyone should be following up wounded buffalo with small calibres. It simply isn't a smart thing to do.

Kind regards,

Carl
 

bowji john

Well-Known Member
Not sure that this is pertinent to the discussion but ...

This is FGASA's take on knock down values for accepted DG calibers

Subjective values are 'calculated' using Hatcher Formula for knock down or 'stop-ability'

RSP = M/(2*g) * A * F

where:

RSP = Relative Stopping Power
M = Momentum of the bullet in foot-pounds/sec (momentum = mass * velocity where mass is in lbs and velocity is in feet/sec)
g = Acceleration due to gravity in feet/sec2.
A = Frontal area of the bullet in square-inches
F = A bullet form factor that depends on the type of the bullet

What is interesting is that even the venerable .375 is pretty low - let alone a 30 06
 

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CarlW

Well-Known Member
Not sure that this is pertinent to the discussion but ...

This is FGASA's take on knock down values for accepted DG calibers

Subjective values are 'calculated' using Hatcher Formula for knock down or 'stop-ability'

RSP = M/(2*g) * A * F

where:

RSP = Relative Stopping Power
M = Momentum of the bullet in foot-pounds/sec (momentum = mass * velocity where mass is in lbs and velocity is in feet/sec)
g = Acceleration due to gravity in feet/sec2.
A = Frontal area of the bullet in square-inches
F = A bullet form factor that depends on the type of the bullet

What is interesting is that even the venerable .375 is pretty low - let alone a 30 06
That is really interesting, John. None of our PHs use .375s (even though personally I love them). They use .416 and upwards as a 'stopper'. I use my .500 to follow up but only so I can look cool.

If any of them proposed to follow up a wounded buff with a .30-06 'to shoot it at long range', they would be sent home.
 

jer

Well-Known Member
Bow hunting of any kind is always going to divide opinion with some saying it’s not ethical etc but whilst I have never wanted to do it I can understand its appeal. It is amongst the most primitive forms of hunting where the skill required is high and risks of injury to the hunter are greater and that must be part of the appeal to those that do it. Its best not shared on social media though as it’s an easy target for the antis. Buffalo are a tough animal and shot placement is crucial with them but I must say that most PHs I have met don’t consider a .375 to have enough authority as a stopping round when things go wrong with large dangerous game.
 

levigsp

Well-Known Member
That is really interesting, John. None of our PHs use .375s (even though personally I love them). They use .416 and upwards as a 'stopper'. I use my .500 to follow up but only so I can look cool.

If any of them proposed to follow up a wounded buff with a .30-06 'to shoot it at long range', they would be sent home.
At last common sense.
 

bowji john

Well-Known Member
That is really interesting, John. None of our PHs use .375s (even though personally I love them). They use .416 and upwards as a 'stopper'. I use my .500 to follow up but only so I can look cool.

If any of them proposed to follow up a wounded buff with a .30-06 'to shoot it at long range', they would be sent home.
Interesting isn't it

Another thing emphasised by the instructor on the recent refresher course I attended was that Muzzle Energy is not considered a useful measure of stop ability because of the missleading influence of velocity in the calculation (i.e. ME = 1/2 MV squared)

Velocity is not considered a DG caliber's friend

Emphasis is given to

Momentum
Penetration
Deviation of path from the straight line (or lack of it) through multiple densities of living tissue to get to the brain - particularly relevant with Buff where the brain is low, towards the back of the scull and surrounded by tissue designed to absorb impact. With an Elephant the bullet is required to penetrate 2 or more ft of tissue so deviation of path is highly relevant as is momentum leading to penetration.

A bullet with a flat merplat apparently adds hugely to both penetration and lack of deviation of path
 

Kalahari

Well-Known Member
Bow hunting of any kind is always going to divide opinion with some saying it’s not ethical etc but whilst I have never wanted to do it I can understand its appeal. It is amongst the most primitive forms of hunting where the skill required is high and risks of injury to the hunter are greater and that must be part of the appeal to those that do it. Its best not shared on social media though as it’s an easy target for the antis. Buffalo are a tough animal and shot placement is crucial with them but I must say that most PHs I have met don’t consider a .375 to have enough authority as a stopping round when things go wrong with large dangerous game.
The thing about this statement is that it still seems unethical to me. If you have a PH at your shoulder with a big stopper (I would consider that a 404 Jeff and up a reasonable level) your are seriously reducing your risk. Lets see the guy go in there without the backup if you really want to see risk. I know that bows were used before firearms, but to avoid accustions of cruelty perhaps we should just "use enough gun".

David.


 

jer

Well-Known Member
The thing about this statement is that it still seems unethical to me. If you have a PH at your shoulder with a big stopper (I would consider that a 404 Jeff and up a reasonable level) your are seriously reducing your risk. Lets see the guy go in there without the backup if you really want to see risk. I know that bows were used before firearms, but to avoid accustions of cruelty perhaps we should just "use enough gun".

David.
I understand your view that is seems unethical to you and yes the risk element would certainly rise significantly if you went in without a backup but it would probably be seen as reckless a bit like insisting a tightrope walker did it without a net. I may be reading this incorrectly but your reply on that seems to draw parallels with the often mooted response of the antis "give the animal a gun and lets see if you have the guts to go hunt it then" My point here is whatever our opinions are let's not throw a section of the hunting community under the wheels of the anti bus just to avoid accusations of cruelty. Cruelty is very subjective and what ferreters, stalkers, anglers, or anyone involved in fieldsports does is seen as cruel in varying degrees by some sections of society.
 

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